MT vs DSG survey

[Axis]

Fair call ... I was thinking about it from the user perspective primarily...

[mfl]

I still think of the DSG as an auto. You can put in D and its does it all for you - but having said that its a world away from the traditional auto.

But driving a manual or the dsg is not the same experience, the manual gives the car a different character and to me a more rewarding experience, even in peak hour traffic (even after 30 odd years of peak hour traffic).

[prise]

There are some strange interpretations of the english words 'manual' and 'automatic' going around on this one.

If it's a manual - the driver changes gears
If it's an automatic - the gearbox can change gears by itself.

The technologies used in the gearbox (torque converter vs wet plate clutches vs dry plate clutches, helical gears, spur gears, planetary gears, belts, chains, etc) are just different ways of achieving manual or automatic functionality.

When vic roads issue a license only allowing operation of an 'automatic' vehicle, it doesn't matter if it uses a torque converter with planetary gears, a DSG or some type of CVT technology, all they care is that your car can shift gears by itself without any driver input.

If it doesn't have a clutch pedal and can shift gears by itself, its an auto.

Let the flaming begin

[gregozedobe]

Axis - I think you forgot about the mechanical perspective.
An 'automatic gearbox' is one with a torque converter in it. A manual gearbox uses clutches.

A DSG is literally two manual gearboxes integrated into the one unit.

It all depends on what you define the word "automatic" to mean.

I think you will struggle mightily to find many genrally accepted official dictionary definitions that include reference to the presence or absence of a torque converter as a primary distinguishing feature of the difference between "automatic" and manual, so I tend to go with the generally accepted (dictionary) meaning of the word ie:
"automatic control - the control of a system by a mechanism which is capable of acting to compensate for disturbances in the sytem without human intervention"

I'm sure almost all non car enthusiasts would class a dsg as an "auto" gearbox (because it controls drive and gear selection without input from the operator), but a more accurate (if much longer) description could be "computer controlled gearbox".

[Corey_R]

Yeah - I get what you guys are saying. However, the fact that even so many of us enthusiasts call the DSG an 'automatic gearbox' means that there is big public confusion about the DSG.

The simple fact is, the DSG is NOT an 'automatic gearbox' in the traditional sense. It's an automated manual gearbox. And I'm sorry, but there IS a difference.

It's why we have so many people come here and post 'issues' with how the DSG operates, because they are treating it as an auto, when it's not. It's why we get people asking "how much of a performance penalty" or "additional fuel consumption" etc etc.

If you put the DSG in with the 'traditional automatics' then you're selling the technology short and not conveying the virtues of VW

I mean this gearbox technology was first released 7 years ago on a HATCHBACK (the R32) and is now used by every single F1 team. Things usually go the other way around, and take way more years to filter down to such things as a 'hatchback'. Now almost all the top car manufactures, including top sports car manufacturers, have a 'DSG' product in production, or at least in development. The DSG is NOT just another 'automatic' gearbox

[Tux]

Best of both worlds?

I'm moving on from a 6 speed manual Mini Cooper S to a new GTI with DSG. I did a fair amount of research and drove the diesel, 118 TSI and GTI versions of the Golf with both manual and DSG trannies before finally deciding to go DSG in our new GTI.

I could find things to 'knock' about DSG if I wanted but there are lots of positives. It suits us as we now live in Sydney and I can drive lazy or spirited depending on the traffic or mood I'm in.

Whilst I really enjoyed reading other's opinions I'd never decide on anything unless it suited me. I have a feeling that I'm gonna love DSG however if I don't I won't blame any of you. I'll just buy a manual...if my wife says I can.

Tux

[tbone malone]

When in negotiations I kept referring to the gearbox as 'auto' and each time the dealers would correct me by saying 'DSG'. At first I thought it was them being a bit protective of their brand and all, but to be fair there are some key technical characteristics that differentiate DSG from a 'normal' auto as already mentioned.

One of my favourite things about DSG - the audio pops and grunts blasting out of the exhaust on gear changes!!!

[Lima]

I could find things to 'knock' about DSG if I wanted but there are lots of positives. It suits us as we now live in Sydney and I can drive lazy or spirited depending on the traffic or mood I'm in.

Therein lies the beauty of DSG.

[Tux]

Therein lies the beauty of DSG.

Yep. Try just leaving a manual in 6th and drive it like an auto and see how far you get!

[Qikas]

Whether it's 'technically' a traditonal auto or not is fairly irrelevant, it's still behaves like one. IMO they have the same boring-to-drive characteristics as a normal auto. I vowed I'd never, ever buy a car with DSG. ..until of course, I drove the new BMW M3 M-DCT 7speed, ..holy s***, ..adjustable change sensor, ie instant shifts, blips on down changes. Got out of that and then realised they now make an auto (DSG, DCT whatever) that I would actually buy

[Rocket36]

The behaviour of the DSG is actually what makes the DSG so completely different to a traditional auto though. That's what people are saying...

[Beaker]

If it doesn't have a clutch pedal and can shift gears by itself, its an auto.

Let the flaming begin

I know how to left foot brake, double down, know how to pick gears without the clutch etc etc. I can blip the throttle on the downchange myself - I don't need the car to do it for me, so I can look like a hero to those in the lane next to me.

Maybe I'm oldschool - but TC / ABS / DSG / ESP all remove driver input, they are excellent in that they stop people having crashes on the road, but IMHO they have no place in true performance cars. There should be a big switch on the dash in EVERY performance car called 'fun police OFF' and it should turn it all completely off (not halfway like the Stability Control in the Golf!).


Now - I'm wearing my flame proof undies so ............ go!

[Rocket36]

Only one thing to say to that...

Formula 1. The most high performance cars in the world.

[ricksterrr]

Do you guys think that in 10 years time there will be a much larger proportion of semi-automatic/automated manual transmissions vs traditional MT (where MT will be in the minority)? It will be a shame if the traditional manual transmission falls out of favour with the public.

though really you could call me a hypocrite for saying that since I ordered DSG

[Corey_R]

Do you guys think that in 10 years time there will be a much larger proportion of semi-automatic/automated manual transmissions vs traditional MT (where MT will be in the minority)? It will be a shame if the traditional manual transmission falls out of favour with the public.

I'd say so - auto's are already more popular than manuals in many countries, so if you have something which is capable of 'manual performance and efficiency' but has other benefits, then the public may head towards that too.