Dynamic / Adaptive chassis control (DCC / ACC)

[langers_sydney]

So glad I ticked this option. The way you can 'Feel' the R when its running in Sport is just brilliant. Took it for a good run on the F1 down the coast and I love the way the steering wheel gets nice and heavy and the way it leans into curves.

For me that is the best thing about my new R. When the missus is in it, its in D and comfort, rides bumps easily and is as 'docile' as it can get....

But flick it into DCC Sport and S transmission, and you have a whole new car........

Love. It.

LS

[SilvrFoxX]

Ran a GTI with ACC this weekend (loaner for our daughters 21st)

Flicking between the modes, I can't see anything I am missing on my R without it other than a button to play with (a lot of placebo effect as well). Unless Sport mode is your thing and the difference in that mode could be useful on track.

Kept it short.

Not sure a test run hitting a button will give you the experience you are expecting. Once you are accustomed to your own car you know when something is different. The ACC on the R is quite substantial in its morphing the car when you know how you usually have it set up.

Like others have said, if you have it then you know and enjoy the cars personality change, if you don't then you wont miss it

[Candyman]

Was a full weekend drive mate

Sport was over the top for road but good for track I suspect

Other two settings, meh.

Driving in normal was subtly annoying as it seemed to change the cars behaviour on runs unexpectedly at times

Not sure what you mean by setting up though.

[SilvrFoxX]

Yeah I don't think i have ever run it in Normal.. it sits in comfort most of the time, but if you want to give the beans on the twisties then SPORT mode on both the DSG and suspension make it a billy cart.. glad I have it.. should have been standard rather than an option.. i suspect it become so at some stage.

My reference to set up was merely saying that I am sure every driver has the car set for them.. if you make any change ( and this could be the missus changing the seat position ) you notice it straight away. The ACC is like that and the more time you spend with it the appreciation grows.. not to Whitejames levels , too much navel gazing there

[WhiteJames]

Pics

Don't know how to post pics on this site.
Posted pics on WJ Suspension Review site on other forum.
The White GTI is not my GTI - it's a demo Manual version that is for sale apparently as is the Red 3 door GTI non-DCC.
You have the luxury of test driving a manual and DSG back to back if your desire.
The final pics of the Silver Golf R and Red Golf ED35 are also apparently for sale at Sutherland.

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 18 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

Cheers.
WJ

[Mariani]

WJ

Reckon the dealer will let you take the ED35 for a quick spin to the boat shed? Would love to hear about the comparison.

Good write up mate.

Mic

[WhiteJames]

A GTI Ed35 -v- GTI Std would make for a good review. Perhaps the next test drive may be the Polo GTI -v- Golf GTI - Is the Golf worth the extra 15K?. Polo GTI's are a bit hard to come by in my local dealership atm. Wouldn't mind comparing the new BMW 118i hatch -v Golf GTI as they are around the same price point. Anyway ... here is a re-post of the GOLF GTI: DCC -v- Non DCC Summary from the previous page:

The DCC –v- non DCC comparison leaves me with a real quandary.

The non-DCC Golf GTI is softer in the suspension and even softer in the steering department. The softer suspension tune I could live with as it offers extra comfort for extended drives of greater than 2 hours. The softer steering is a disappointment that I would find difficult to live with. It leaves me thinking that Volkswagen has pandered to the largest market outside of Europe and Americanised the steering, making it lighter. For drivers looking for improved handling, Volkswagen have tactfully introduced a DCC option that gives both steering and suspension a harder edge. Another part of me takes that view that Volkswagen is attempting the pitch the standard non-DCC Golf GTI to a wider audience, in other words: Toyota-rising their product to in an attempt to be everything to everyone, broadening the definition of the hot-hatch.

The DCC equipped Golf GTI on the other hand offers a sporty & agile chassis and with a touch of a button, a more comfortable ride or somewhere in between if you desire. But there is a trade-off for all this electronic wizardry – the driver’s skill & inputs become a lesser factor in obtaining the best from the great little Golf chassis. Substituting the driver’s ability & skill to adjust the chassis attitude with clinical & technical efficiency leaves me a little cold in respect to the DCC. The efficiency is great for user friendliness, long trips and for those that are uninitiated in the art of muscling around a little hot hatch, but fast doesn’t necessarily mean fun when driving on public roadways. Is the DCC equipped GTI a better car to own? Yes ... but not necessary a better car to drive in the context of driving as an art-form.

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Car Magazine (U.K.) take on the non-DCC Golf GTI

Picked up a copy of the Sept 2011 issue of CAR Magazine as they have several interesting reviews: Megane RS265 Cup -v- Sirocco R where the Renault is best drivers car and Sirocco best in every other endeavour; BMW 118i M-Sport Manual ... and a non-DCC Golf GTI -v- Audi TTD Awd -v- Peugeot RCZ -v- Mini Countryman -v- BMW X1 -v- Range Rover Evoque (don't ask me why) written by journo Chris Chilton. Chris Chilton echoes my own views on the non-DCC Golf GTI when he says,

"In insolation the (non-DCC) Golf GTI is perfectly judged ... It's only when you get to driver the (non-DCC) Golf GTI back to back against other cars that you start to wonder if Volkswagen could speed up the (steering) rack a little, sharpen the turn-in and dial out a bit of body movement through quick direction changes."

It also has me wondering if the non-DCC Golf GTI uses a different ratio steering rack compared to the DCC equipped GTI?

Cheers.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Golf GTI Ed35 with DCC takes out CAR Mag (U.K.) Best Sports Car Title

The earlier CAR Magazine (U.K.) I referred to written by Chris Chilton suggested that the standard non-DCC Golf GTI was a bit on the soft & lazy side in the context of a hot-hatch. The Nov 2011 issue of CAR Magazine has Ben Pulman driving another GTI in as many months, albeit a Golf GTI Ed35 equipped with Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC).

In the later issue of CAR Magazine that tests the GTI Ed35 DCC for the title of ‘The Year’s Best Sportscar (under 50K GBP)’, he also forms the opinion that the DCC Ed35 feels sharper and firmer than the standard non-DCC GTI on the road and was surprised at how the Golf GTI Ed35 DCC felt on the track (Megane RS265 still kills it for lap time).

This further cements in my mind that the chassis tune between the non-DCC and DCC Golf GTI involves a little more than simply adding electronics to the standard non-DCC tune. The DCC tune seems to be that one notch higher in terms of sportiness over the standard and reasonably soft non-DCC Gofl GTI damper & steering tunes. The Golf GTI Ed35 runs the same suspension tune as that of any other Golf GTI – no difference in that regard.

The Golf GTI Ed35 GTI equipped with DCC did so well in the comparison (Cayman R aside), that Ben Pulman states:

Golf or Megane? It’d usually be the Megane getting the nod, but the Edition 35 now has an edge to counter the all-roundness that too often counts against it in road-test situations.

Pulman also goes as far as to state:

It just makes the Audi RS3 absurd. If you took your Audi RS3 in for a service and got a GTI Ed35 DCC as a courtesy car, you’d feel terrible.”

Mmmm ... I wonder if that Red Ed35 GTI at the local dealership has DCC?

Cheers.
WJ

[Corey_R]

But WJ! That Ed 35 has that gawd awful EA113 engine that you have been piling on for the past 12 months!

[Ryan_R]

Forgive me if this is the stupidest thing you've heard today ... but couldn't you adjust the lightness of the steering wheel by taking the airbag out and adjusting the tightness with a wrench? When I switched steering wheels recently, I don't think I've done it up exactly as tight, and the wheel felt a bit lighter in my hands (perhaps it's just the fact that I'm using a smaller/lighter steering wheel now). It was a bit unnerving at the start but I'm used to it, plus I like paying attention and exercising skill when driving for fun.

[AdamD]

But WJ! That Ed 35 has that gawd awful EA113 engine that you have been piling on for the past 12 months!

I LOL'd.

(Completely OT: Standard GTI with stage 1 versus an ED35 stage 1... now there'd be an interesting comparison (and yes, with DCC fitted). I wonder how the FWD would go with ~180kw ATW. There's no question you'd get plenty of wheelspin through second gear!)

[WhiteJames]

In Pullman’s summation, he goes on to say in respect to the Audi RS3: The RS3 is the polar opposite (to the Nissan 370Z): slick, mega quick, but unless you think going fast is the be all and end all you’ll get bored sooner rather than later. Buy an S3 instead, or better yet a Golf R if you must have a four wheel drive fast hatch – or just get the excellent front-drive Golf GTI Ed35. Mind you, the Golf GTI was the slowest on the track – slower than the Opel Corsa Nurburgring, Mini Coupe and Citroen DS-R3. What Pullman is getting at is that fast does not necessary equal fun for a m/v used on the open roadway. It's a case of assessing driver enjoyment, driver interaction and driver effort in respect to the overall package as an ownership experience.

A Golf GTI Edition 35 in Manual with DCC would be okay as the driver has the ability to reduce some of the turbo lag with the KO4 by changing gears manually. The Edition 35 GTI does offer a bit more agro up high in the rev range, which put it closer to the Renault for level of agro. Turbo lag is uncool. I'll stick with the EA888.

I really like the 35 badges on the side of the Edition 35 and the cloth interior is very nice. I hated the denim like tartan seats on the MK6 GTI initially, but now I love them, much better & grip more so than the leather of the Red demo non-DCC used in the comparison. It was pleasant to see that my GTI, despite the usual Volkswagen squeaks and rattles from the interior, is still tight as a drum and gave nothing away to the much newer demo Golf GTI in terms of refinement. See if an Edition 35 Golf GTI can tempt Ray into ownership, otherwise a Sirocco R, as he may be in the market veyr soon. Oh yeah, and those blind spots in the 5 door relative to the 3 door. Both have blind spots, but in different area of sight. I thought the 5 door offered a better view as the rear window appears to cowl higher into the C-pillar. Not sure on removing and re-fitting different steering wheels – best consult a mechanic on that one.

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Trade in Time: Golf GTI -v- Polo GTI?

It would be good if you could alter the steering resistance and damping using something like VAGCOM. Could be possible with the steering weight/resistance. Probably possible with the dampers with a pre-set incremental set of mathematical figures for damping force alteration. Extra damping in the mid-range would be good for the 30kph to 70kph speed range as imo the DCC Golf GTI could use a bit more compression and rebound in a straight line.

The Hydraulic aftermarket suspension systems like the Koni-FSD high frequency valve strut mono-tube or KW coilover offer a premium feeling ride over that of the OE Sachs Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) damper. Ultimately it’s what’s inside that counts. The aftermarket hydraulic valved low/high speed compression/rebound units act faster than the electronics of the DCC imo as the fluid is pushing through a valve that works pretty much instantaneously, rather than having a computer turning a needle, etc in a fraction of a second.

Bear in mind that the difference between the DCC and non-DCC Mark 6 Golf R may not be as stark as that of the Golf GTI, where the Golf R has heavier steering & firmer suspension over the Golf GTI in non-DCC form. Having the non-DCC Golf GTI a little soft and the DCC equipped GTI more capable, but de-sensitised and lacking that ultimate raw driver appeal, may leave the new Polo GTI to offer up a tad more driver appeal. See video from Spain/Portugal:

Vw Polo GTI vs. VW Golf GTI DSG 2011 (English Subtitles) - YouTube

Video at the 4.15 min mark shows the Polo GTI to have more corner entry understeer and additional corner exit oversteer as was the case with the non-DCC Golf GTI around the Boat Shed run, albeit not as pronounced as that on the track or with torsion beam semi-independent rear axle on the Polo GTI offering up some bump steer.

The video does show a good visual representation of what I was feeling when driving the DCC –v- Non DCC Golf GTI’s. The Polo GTI does have a nice bit of oversteer at the 2.25 min mark – you’re not likely to experience much of that in my DCC equipped Golf GTI as it’s predominately a case of slight understeer right way through the corner in a very composed manner – surefooted and safe.

For a factory tuned hot hatch, I think you can’t go past the Renault Megane RS250 for driver satisfaction. Could use a tighter LSD for track work imo. Renault Sport seems to have the chassis dynamics pretty much spot on for driver appeal and liveability in the Megane RS250. The Renault Sport Clio Cup would be more fun, but perhaps a lot less liveable as a daily proposition with added suspension firmness and high revving motor – see link from South Africa magazine Driver Magazine.co.za.

Drive versus: Polo GTI meets Renault Clio RS 20th AE Part 3 | Drive Magazine

Cheers.
WJ

[AdamD]

See video from Spain/Portugal:

Vw Polo GTI vs. VW Golf GTI DSG 2011 (English Subtitles) - YouTube

The driver in that video is really not driving to the conditions... way too hot into corners, and not enough finesse out of them!