Dynamic / Adaptive chassis control (DCC / ACC)

[WhiteJames]

Magnatec Ride Control -v- Dynamic Chassis Control

Just want to add this link re:

Magnatec -v- Dynamic Chassis Control.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/acc-vs-audi-magnetic-ride-46153.html

Magnatec is the choice for Ferrari, Audi and HSV.
Dynamic Chassis Control is the pick for Volkswagen, Opel.

Some useful links in this thread.

Cheers.
WJ

[Prodigy]

I've been wondering for a while whether i made the right choice in not ordering ACC in my R (I know it's too late now) but reading a lot of this makes me think i should of. Unfortunately neither of the cars i test drove had this option fitted and to be honest i thought the ride on the 19's was smoother and more compliant than my WRX with it's 18's and Whiteline lowered springs.

I guess as long as i don't drive one with ACC i won't know any different when my car arrives and hopefully will be happy with the standard ride.

I wonder how many other people with R's/Gti's on order decided against ticking the ACC option.

[simonm]

I wonder how many other people with R's/Gti's on order decided against ticking the ACC option.

The two main reasons I ordered ACC are partly because I like gadgets, but mostly because I wanted the comfort mode to optimise the Wife Acceptance Factor when seeking purchase approval.

Which is also one of the reasons I didn't order the 19s (harder ride, more expensive rubber over the life of the car, I like the silver headlights with the Rising Blue, and I once came back to my WRX after dinner out to find it up on bricks with no wheels - only had standard rims, was in a busy, well lit multi storey carpark, and it kind of ruined my night. Not really interested in any wheels that might be considered more attractive!)

[Cossor]

, and I once came back to my WRX after dinner out to find it up on bricks with no wheels - only had standard rims, was in a busy, well lit multi storey carpark, and it kind of ruined my night. Not really interested in any wheels that might be considered more attractive!)

So that's why VW have anti theft wheel bolts!

[Corey_R]

Which is also one of the reasons I didn't order the 19s (harder ride, more expensive rubber over the life of the car, I like the silver headlights with the Rising Blue

Yep I agree with all 3 of those points, plus to add to that, if you are actually serious about driving, the 19" rims will be slower around a track due to them being heavier and having less sidewall height and therefore offer worse handling. In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

[hooba]

In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

You got numbers or testing to back this up, or is it just theory being used to arrive to a conclusion?

[Corey_R]

Yeah... numbers from a car review in Australia somewhere. There was a link on this forum in one of the threads.... argh. Do a search

Edit:
Here you go. It's a link to the 18" Detroit's thread on this forum where they were discussion the results of an Evo UK magazine comparison of the GTI with 17" vs 18" wheels with the same tyre brand. 2.5 seconds improvement around a track which only takes 60 seconds to lap is pretty decent!

Also, Top Gear Australia has shown that tyres with lower profiles don't always mean better lap times either (HSV with 22" wheels vs 20" wheels for example). In addition to this, you have basically every racing series in the world using higher profiles than we commonly use on "performance cars" on the roads. F1, Indycar, Nascar, V8 Supercars etc etc etc. Admittedly these days they all have regulated wheel sizes, they were regulated at the sizes they are after many years of teams being able to find their own balance and coming to their conclusions... tyres are an integral part of your suspension system, so although having huge sidewalls means sloppy performance, once you get to a certain point, reducing the sidewall further negatively impacts dampening/rebound and thus grip.

[hooba]

Yeah... numbers from a car review in Australia somewhere. There was a link on this forum in one of the threads.... argh. Do a search

Me and the search function on this forum don't get on. I recently tried searching on "MDI niggles" and got zero results, so instead I manually scrolled through the thread list. For what is quite a modern forum version, the search functionality is really poor IMO.

[Corey_R]

sorry buddy... I've just edited and updated my post... but we both effectively did that simulatenously

[simonm]

So that's why VW have anti theft wheel bolts!

The police offers that attended the scene said that lock nuts don't make a huge amount of difference, the thieves just get a socket that is slightly too small and hammer it on, then they can wrench the lock nut off.

[Prodigy]

The two main reasons I ordered ACC are partly because I like gadgets, but mostly because I wanted the comfort mode to optimise the Wife Acceptance Factor when seeking purchase approval.

Which is also one of the reasons I didn't order the 19s (harder ride, more expensive rubber over the life of the car, I like the silver headlights with the Rising Blue, and I once came back to my WRX after dinner out to find it up on bricks with no wheels - only had standard rims, was in a busy, well lit multi storey carpark, and it kind of ruined my night. Not really interested in any wheels that might be considered more attractive!)

Yep I agree with all 3 of those points, plus to add to that, if you are actually serious about driving, the 19" rims will be slower around a track due to them being heavier and having less sidewall height and therefore offer worse handling. In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

I have no real intentions to take the car on the track and opting for the 19's over the 18" was an easy choice for me, plus i prefer the look of the black headlights.

I know a few guys in the UK are running on 19"s without ACC and the majority of their roads are in a lot worse condition than ours yet they don't seem to have any major complaints, so i'm hoping all should be fine for me. I think i'm just having one of those "should i have' moments.

[pologti18t]

Yep I agree with all 3 of those points, plus to add to that, if you are actually serious about driving, the 19" rims will be slower around a track due to them being heavier and having less sidewall height and therefore offer worse handling. In fact, with the GTI, the std 17" wheels are faster around a track than the 18" Detroits, so the 19" Talladega's are only going to be even further in the wrong direction!

Seems true from what I have read etc.

[BBP]

Bigger wheels = faster is a myth.

The larger diametre tyres can't get the same traction as smaller ones. The contact patch on smaller tyres is larger under load hence more grip. That's why drag cars and F1 cars have big side walls.

[WhiteJames]

DCC: The 3 tiers of DCC - Steering / Dynamic Control / Settings

Dynamic Chassis Control can be split into 3 parts:

1. Steering resistance.
2. Dynamic control function.
3. Comfort – Normal – Sport - modes.

1. Steering Resistance: Steering increases with speed as per the non-DCC Golf GTI. After having driven over 4,500km in my GTI equipped with DCC, with about 90% of driving out in the country & mountains, I generally stick to DCC -Normal mode for the most part. The Sport mode is really a plus in the tight twisty mountain routes. Reason being is that at lower speeds the standard Comfort/Normal steering is a too light – that is around 50-80kph. The DCC Comfort/Normal mode makes the GTI difficult to place on the roadway when snaking up and down the tight s-bends at lower speeds. This can be annoying and not as confidence inspiring, leaving the driver having to be very light on steering inputs, in addition to feeling like the chassis is up to the task, but not the steering. Sport mode’s heavy resistance steering makes the GTI much easier to place on the roadway, the driver is able to concentrate on smoothing out the bends with less effort with direct & responsive steering. This makes driving on these types of roadways more enjoyable – brings that element of go-cart accuracy into the drive experience. After a couple of month of ownership, DCC - Sport setting on the highway is not always actively sought, as the lighter Comfort/Sport steering makes for a relaxing drive on the freeway. Sport mode is always chosen for Sporty driving environments like mountain hill climbs. I get the impression that the engineers at Volkswagen have really hit the mark with the Dynamic Chassis Control option.

2. Adaptive control function: Basically, regardless of the mode that the DCC is put into, the electronics determine what the exact amount of damping is required for every occasion. For example: In DCC – Sport: the chassis is stiff until a pot hole is struck mid corner, which in this case, the DCC will soften momentarily to absorb the shock of the pot hole, offering compliance to prevent the pot hole from unsettling the chassis and punting the vehicle offline and into the nearby bushes. Dynamic computer controlled suspension keeps the GTI on course sitting flat through turns all the time. Similar thing with series of pitted and scarred roadwork patches – the driver expects the series of patchwork undulations to unsettle the ride in a straight line, but the DCC adapts almost instantaneously to soften up the series of pits and patchwork in the roadway. The vice versa is also true when DCC is in comfort mode. Comfort mode at 50kph is much softer than Comfort mode at 110kph and any large hits struck along the roadway are stiffened up momentarily to prevent under-damping or hitting the bump stops. As stated before: Adaptive dampers manage to be both supple and firm in almost every instance. This really improves the ownership experience and I never tire of driving the GTI in any type of conditions.

3. Comfort – Normal – Sport modes: This is the basic variation in the chassis tune. The three modes of Comfort – Normal – Sport are distinct from each other. Initially the variations in chassis tune didn’t feel like a huge difference, and are not likely to on a short demo test drive, but after over 4,500km the differences in the DCC become stark.

Cheers
WJ

[Prodigy]

So would the stock setup of a Golf R without ACC be similar in feel to any one of the three setups or is it completely different again.