Dynamic / Adaptive chassis control (DCC / ACC)

[G-rig]

Sounds good, and i guess all the good cars are coming out with some form of magnetic dampening, even if they are mostly saloons etc.

May be worth it and give after market suspension a miss (as it's hard to get right with NVH anyway).

[Lima]

All they need to add is a flexible ride height.

[G-rig]

Agree, half the fun is changing the cosmetics and removing wheel gap as well as handling.

I don't think i'd bother with ACC on a Golf though, as it is meant to feel more firm/sporty than the basic models.

Could be good on the larger cars.

[Corey_R]

Thanks for the link to the brochure and explaination of the ACC (DCC in Europe?).

From what I can tell, VW have realised that ACC keeps getting confused for Automatic Climate Control and Adaptive Cruise Control and have decided since there was already two ACC's in their TLA's that they're start calling Active Chassis Control by the new name of Dynamic Chassis Control and thus use the DCC TLA.

[Pauly]

For those who are intrested:

The Motor Report posted up a review of the Golf 6 with a DSG Box and Adapative Chassis Control.

They have tested a GTI with and without ACC, so it seems good for people who want to compare:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/49980/2010-vw-golf-6-gti-dsg-road-test-review

"There are two suspensions offered for the GTI – a conventional coil-and-damper arrangement or a similar system with electronically adjustable dampers.

The standard set-up is a bit stiff for regular road use, but the optional Adaptive Chassis Control offers three settings: Normal, Comfort or Sport.

Normal mode is close to the standard non-adjustable suspension tune, but Comfort is softer, less jarring and easier to live with over pockmarked roads.

Indeed, Comfort is perhaps the better mode for a serious backroads blast, the more compliant tune soaking up bumps that would otherwise unsettle a more stiffly-damped car.

Sport, on the other hand, tightens the chassis to a degree that’s suitable for the occasional trackday sprint. However, we don’t recommend it for your daily commute.

On more sedate drives, the GTI’s ride can be a problem. It’s hard - not spine-breakingly so, but hard nonetheless – and unless you opt for the Adaptive Chassis Control system there’s not a lot that can be done about it.

Options like the 18-inch alloys and Adaptive Chassis Control bump up the retail price by $1200 and $1500 respectively, and in our opinion the variable damper technology is a box that should be ticked."

[WhiteJames]

I think the issue of ACC aka DCC being proactive, that is reacting to each & every undulation with a consummate change in damping rate every millisecond, has been put to rest. ACC is proactive.

Change in steering sensitivity and weight is also a clear cut case.

The issue with the change in throttle sensitivity is still unclear. > Some reports on the MANUAL version state that the throttle sensitivity is enhanced. Other reports failed to note any change in throttle actuation. None of the reports on the DSG indicate any change in throttle sensitivity.

In respect to aftermarket suspension for the MKV and MKVI Golf:

Tug'n'Release and Spring Bind are common problems with lowering springs. To a lessor extend, strut top bearings. Most strut type progressive lowering springs have some form of spring bind. Tug'n'Release is a real problem with the heavier Golfs (R32 and probably Golf R). Best suspension identified so far AFAIK that are Spring Bind and Tug'n'Release free are:

KW V1-V3 coilovers.
Tein Euro coilovers (comfort/sports).
HPA KW SHS coilovers (comfort/sports).
Sachs Street Performance coilovers.
Bilstein PSS (not confirmed on some issues with noise).

Additional aspect of aftermarket suspension is not having the installer screw up the installation.

With the electronic XDS (XDL) diff, sway bars are not such a requirement on the MK6 GTI. The MK6 GTI carries less factory understeer than the MKV GTI.

Bi-Xenons:
The replacement cost for one headlight on a Merc C63 AMG is $2638.
The @ $1,000 that my dealer est to me for a complete replacement of one Bi-Xenon seems understated compared to the Merc.
In any event, when driving in the country at night and attempting to avoid Roos, best to slow down by knocking off 20-30kph of your speed.

Cheers.
WJ

[G-rig]

RE: the Bi-xenon's, they would be covered under warranty for 3 years, and I'd take out extended warranty if i kept the car for 5 years (so not much to worry about for a fair while and not that many people would keep the car longer than that?).

[WhiteJames]

This is a short Swedish Review of the Golf R with 19" wheels on Standard Suspension:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alltommotor.se%2Ftester%2Fbilar%2Fvolkswagen%2Fbuskul-golf-r-kostar-skjortan-1.20763&sl=sv&tl=en

Translation is not good, but ... similar issues keep turning up ... re:

1. Excessive Golf R fuel consumption -v- claimed figures (as opposed to the GTI); more to the point ...

2. Golf R on standard suspension with 19" wheels gives a hard ride.

Recommended fix for point (2) ... ACC (DCC) Adaptive Chassis Control Dampers.

On a tangent:

In respect to the MANUAL gearbox in the Golf, whether it be a GTI or Golf R, point made in this thread was that the gear ratios are too close and the throw/actuation of the MANUAL gearbox too long & cumbersome for a truly sporting drive.

I share the same view regarding the MANUAL tranny; better give it a miss.

Read on later into page 2 of the thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4757750

Cheers.
WJ

[Maverick]

On the other hand, Bi-Xenon lights on the Audi A3 costs only $700 as an option versus $2,000 for the GTI.

Actually you'll find it's $1800 Xenon headlights and $750 for the adaptive cornering option so $2550 instead of $2000 on the GTI.

[G-rig]

I think i'd definitely get ACC with the 19" option on the Golf R, coudl be a pretty hard ride as the MK6 chassis is a fair bit stiffer. Still undecided whether i'd need it on the GTI with 18", probably nice to have.

[Maverick]

Bi-Xenons:
The replacement cost for one headlight on a Merc C63 AMG is $2638.
The @ $1,000 that my dealer est to me for a complete replacement of one Bi-Xenon seems understated compared to the Merc.
In any event, when driving in the country at night and attempting to avoid Roos, best to slow down by knocking off 20-30kph of your speed.

Cheers.
WJ

Complete replacement is $2500-3000 for the Bi-Xenon and ~$1500 for the halogen (each).

[Maverick]

Personally i wouldn't get ACC as nobody will care about that option or know what it is come time to sell, and is money gone straight away (at least you can see a sun roof and adds to the luxury of the car - most people would still prefer a car with one given the choice).

Sounds good, and i guess all the good cars are coming out with some form of magnetic dampening, even if they are mostly saloons etc.

May be worth it and give after market suspension a miss (as it's hard to get right with NVH anyway).

Agree, half the fun is changing the cosmetics and removing wheel gap as well as handling.

I don't think i'd bother with ACC on a Golf though, as it is meant to feel more firm/sporty than the basic models.

Could be good on the larger cars.

I think i'd definitely get ACC with the 19" option on the Golf R, coudl be a pretty hard ride as the MK6 chassis is a fair bit stiffer. Still undecided whether i'd need it on the GTI with 18", probably nice to have.

I'm getting confused stop changing your mind! You remind me of Pauly!

[G-rig]

I'm getting confused stop changing your mind! You remind me of Pauly!

.

Just hard to know if you really need it or not.

It would be worth it if you could install lowered springs and maintain the comfort.

[WhiteJames]

Mav ... your worth your weight in gold re: info on the GTI specs & pricing. I spoke my local Audi dealer for a comparison of the Audi A3 Quattro (AWD) -v- MK6 GTI (XDS). He showed me the options list, but didn't say anything about the extra for the xenons. ACC Magnetic was $2400 which is certainly pricey compared to what Volkswagen are offering.

The replacement cost of each headlight - both Halogen and Bi-Xenon - is criminal. How can they justify such a cost?

Having said that, I'm most keen on trying out the Bi-Xenon Headlights and ACC when my ride arrives.

ACC Example:

Firstly; bear in mind I haven't driven the Adaptive Chassis Control GTI.

Outside my local Volkswagen dealer is a pothole that has been half repaired, butted up against a lip in the roadway. Striking this bump with my old MKV GTI with sports KW V3 coilovers on almost full soft had the MKV GTI stiff legged and nuggety. Suprisingly ... when test driving the new Mark 6 GTI with std suspension and 17" wheels, I struck the same half-baked pot-hole and sure enough, the std GTI felt very similar to my KW V3 GTI with H&R sway bars. Even one of the salesmen complained that the dip into the hole was jarring, stiffed legged and nuggety (Salesman Clinton). This type of bump at slow speed refers to the slow-speed compression and overall rebound of the damper setting. Now ...

If I was driving the ACC(DCC) Adaptive Chassis Control damped Mark 6 GTI when I struck the same half-baked pot-hole, the electronics feeding to and from each individual damper would reduce the compression & rebound rate of the damper on that wheel, creating some suppleness ... instead of a stiff-legged, nuggety and jarring ride. ACC would give me suppleness in an instant when I require it; and stiffer agility in an instant, when things become demanding. For instance, when in comfort and having to avoid that wombat or Roo, swerving in comfort will automatically have the ACC (DCC) move the setting into sport when the situation arises ... in the instant that you do require it. Similar thing for that last second overtaking. ACC is your friend all the time, whatever setting you choose - sport, normal or comfort.

Adaptive Chassis Control dampers are being fitted to many of the upmarket rides these days: Everything from BMW M3, HSV GTS, Ferrari's, Maserati, Audi's, whether in magnetic form or electric form. This technology, like Bi-Xenon Headlights, is now available on everyday vehicles (relatively speaking) for reasonable prices. Guys with H&R Sports/Bilstein PSS10/KW V3 would like more comfort at times; other with HPA KW SHS, Tein Euro or Koni FSD/Eibach Prokit would like some more sports control & agility at times, rather than comfort. Edit: Executives are now expecting to have a function that allows them to have a supple ride for everyday use, then a sport setting when things become demanding or for track day blasts. Esp when getting over that 50K $$$ mark. No one wants a stiff legged, jarring, nuggety ride all the time. The manufacturers are catering for the demands of the market.

ACC (DCC) gives you the best of both worlds in an instant or at a touch of the button.

There is always a concern that the changes from Comfort - Normal - Sports is minimal. I beg to differ, from my research. Guys like MOTOR's race driver like Cam McConville are indicating that the Sport mode on the GTI is too firm for everyday use on Aus roadways, as many other reports have also suggested. I think Sport mode has plenty of use for me on certain roadways, but wouldn't want to run Sport mode all the time, as was the case with the aftermarket KW V3 coilovers - great on most of the Pacific Hwy ... not so great on the New England Hwy.

Ride Height:

The Mark 6 is a tad lower than the MKV GTI. About 7-8mm lower at the front and similar at the rear. The Mark 6 GTI will sag 5mm-10mm after @ 12months, making it a tad lower. Not to mention any occupants will also lower the GTI with extra sprung weight. The Golf R is not 25mm lower than the GTI ... its 25mm lower than a regular GTI ... or about 7-8mm lower than the GTI.

Chassis:

Mark 6 GTI chassis is stiffer than the MKV GTI. The extra 40kg of weight has primarily been put into the chassis, if not more as apparently the EA888 motor is slightly lighter than the MKV's EA113 motor. My MKV GTI had leather interior, which I discarded this time around in favour of Bi-Xenon & Park Assist Sensors. The leather (or plastic outers) of the rear seat would creak driving out of my steeply graded horseshoe driveway and up driveway lips. The stiffer suspension, namely the sway bars, was creating some flex in the rear of the chassis, causing the body of the vehicle to move against the leather, making the noise. My friend has a similar problem with his R32. Cloth is much quieter in this repsect, with added comfort and grip as a bonus (still like the MKV GTI cloth seats better). I feel the Mark 6 chassis has less flex than the MKV GTI in the short test drives I have conducted.

Park Sensors/Park Assist:

Other continents have the option of front and rear sensors with auto-dipping mirror for @ $700; and a second option for Park Assist with front & rear sensors & auto-dipping left mirror for $1400. In Aus, we only have the Park Assist Option, otherwise I would opt for just the front and rear factory sensors with auto-dip left mirror.

Cheers
WJ

[pologti18t]

Mav ... your worth your weight in gold re: info on the GTI specs & pricing. I spoke my local Audi dealer for a comparison of the Audi A3 Quattro (AWD) -v- MK6 GTI (XDS). He showed me the options list, but didn't say anything about the extra for the xenons. ACC Magnetic was $2400 which is certainly pricey compared to what Volkswagen are offering.

That (magnetic) system is far more advanced than the system available on the Golf GTI.