Golf 118TSI vs. 103TDI

[Zaul]

It's an extra $2500. It'd be easier to justify buying a diesel it if it was cheaper than the TSI, but it'd take a lot of driving to make back in fuel costs the extra cost of the diesel engine, and in the mean time you have to put up with having less money in the bank while driving a slower car that idles like a tractor...

As hoi polloi suggested earlier in the thread, it took me a lot of willpower to not even test-drive a GTI. With the TSI I was already spending more on a car than I'd intended to, so realistically the GTI would have been pushing my budget a little bit too far.

I went to the dealer to test drive a TSI..and somewhat foolishly thought while I was there that I'd test drive a GTI too, because I could! Not the smartest thing I've ever done...guess what I bought?

[Greg Roles]

I saw the twincharged 1.4 engine on display at Sydney Airport late 2007, and spent about 10 minutes marvelling at it. Decided I HAD to have one, as the thought of being able to tweak both a turbo AND a blower was enticing!

Went up and test drove one. Felt like my mum's 2.4 accord, smooth, effortless, a big four pot feel. Didn't seem like a motorbike sized engine at all.
Drove the GTI. Superbly powerful and torquey, tight, responsive, a real drivers car. Immediately obvious why it gets all the rave reviews. Suspension was just too harsh for me personally, which was the decider. Was trading in my FPV BA GT Falcon. Dealer suggested i should try the GT diesel given I was stepping out of a V8. I laughed at him.

They unwrapped one straight from the packing materials, quickly prepped it, and I took it for a spin. One hit of that turbo rush, and I was sold. Certainly not a refined car, nor a smooth or easy to drive one. I could see why a lot of people wouldn't like it. Reminded me of my first turbo, a JA Mitsubishi Starion ( lag city ) and even more importantly, my favourite old trailbike back in the day, a Yammie YZ125G. max torque at 11,000rpm, max hp at 11,500rpm. Talk about peaky.

Bought the TDI no question, and have loved it ever since. I love the rush, the challenge to "keep on the pipe", and the massive fuel economy. Feel I've not been this good a driver for many, many years - a necessity of driving a manual laggy diesel in traffic.

All I could wish for is RWD or AWD, but I'll work on that in the "next" TDI : )

[stormshark]

I saw the twincharged 1.4 engine on display at Sydney Airport late 2007, and spent about 10 minutes marvelling at it. Decided I HAd to have one, as the thought of being able to tweak both a turbo AND a blower was enticing!

Went up and test drove one. Felt like my mum';s 2.4 accord, smooth, effortless, a big four pot feel. Didn't seem like a motorbike sized engine at all.
Drove the GTI. Superbly powerful and torquey, tight, responsive, a real drivers car. Immediately obvious why it gets all the rave reviews. Suspension was just too harsh for me personally, which was the decider. Was trading in my FPV BA GT Falcon. Dealer suggested i should try the Gt diesel given i was stepping out of a V8. I laughed at him.

The unwrapped it from the packing materials, and I took it for a spin. One hit of that turbo rush, and I was sold. Certainly not a refined car, nor a smooth or easy to drive one. I could see why a lot of people wouldn't like it. reminded me of my first turbo, a JA Mitsubishi Starion ( lag city ) and even more importantly, my favourite old trailbike back in the day, a Yammie YZ125G. max torque at 11,000rpm, max hp at 11,500rpm. Talk about peaky.

Bought the TDI no question, and have loved it ever since. I love the rush, the challenge to "keep on the pipe", and the massive fuel economy. Feel I've not been this good a driver for many, many years - a necessity of driving a manual laggy diesel in traffic.

All I could wish for is RWD or AWD, but I'll work on that in the "next" TDI : )

I'm with Greg, i have come out of bigger cars too including a V8. The GTI was just a tad to harsh in ride for me as i live and work in the provinces. The TSI in many respects was a better drive than the MK6 TDI, but for some reason the Mk5 GT TDI got my vote, i conceed it has its idiosyncracys but they are actually something i have grown to like. I somewhat regret not going the GTI but the roads i am on are just too rough.

[prise]

The first gear on the 7spd DSG is very low so acceleration in first for my 118 TSI is usually traction limited.

[dopey]

EH?!

We've got a 118TSI (manual) and a 103TDI (DSG)...

I preferred the 1.4 twin charge engine mated to the 6sp manual, I am not a big fan of the 7sp DSG (there's nothing wrong with it, just personal preference) but I felt that the 2.0D was a perfect match with the 6sp DSG transmission so opted for that combo with our second car. Best of both worlds I think
In the manual transmission I thought the 118TSI was nicer to drive than the 103TDI, but as mentioned in DSG it was the opposite.

What's quicker and whatnot doesn't bother me, I just went with what was more pleasant for normal every day driving in my opinion.

[Cossor]

Thanks Dopey
Aint it nice to have best of both worlds!
In my case seriously considered 103TDI, but worried after DSG caused flat out revs just moving a bit quickly from rest.
Also prefered 118TSI DSG as felt 'more in control'
Why DSG as against manual? I think it offers best of both worlds.
Although loved my Renault 16TS (Manual of course) in an earlier incarnation, company later swiched to all auto drive cars!! Disaster
So when chance to have car allowance instead, obtained last of British Triumph 2500S. Really enjoyed it, but also learned why 'last of breed'
(Had electric overdrive, large twin SU carb etc) (Wife took it on seperation, later crashed it falling asleep)
So have driven auto since!

[hooba]

After watching plenty of One HD today, I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts about getting the GTI and not the TDI.

[Stoney!]

There's no way the 118 TSI's could take the GTI off the line, the GTI has no lag, has full torque available from ~1700rpm and is able to put the power down through grippier tyres and suspension. Plus the added benefit that it can corner and stop.

The 118 TSI I could see taking the a TDI off the line but once the higher power ones get onto boost they would leave the 118 TSI for dead.

Actually wrong, because me and my mate lined up our tsi manual and DSG TDI one night and I thought the same, his torque would bring him past me not far after launch but never happened.

I've driven a GTi, and I can feel the difference in lag. It's certainly not as much of a shove in the back as the diesel. But it's still there and a little more progressive.

The gti did however accelerate much better from a rolling start where sometimes the supercharger doens't cut in each and every time (at least on my car)

Stoney!

[Corey_R]

Yeah - and I guess that's what I'm asking for someone to provide.

Some actual evidence that the 118TSI can beat the GTI under equal circumstances (with two drivers who know what they're doing). Saying "DSG TDI was beat by my 118TSI so it'll beat a GTI too" is not good enough. Diesels and Petrols deliver torque and power differently, even if their peak figures are similar. Saying that you once drove a GTI and think that the 118TSI feels faster is also a not a valid comparison. My Polo GTI "feels" faster than the new R I just drove, but we all know the R unmodified will do 0 to 100 in 5.7 seconds, quicker than my Polo GTI even with Stage I ECU could hope to achieve.

Every video or print figure I can find shows that the GTI is quite capable of its 6.9 and beyond. You've now confirmed that even a chipped 118TSI can only equal that. So for the few making the claim that the 118TSI is quicker off the mark - prove it. Show a video, show some logs etc.

Edit: Oh, and please, no illegal street racing videos - it's against the rules of the forums

[Maverick]

Actually wrong, because me and my mate lined up our tsi manual and DSG TDI one night and I thought the same, his torque would bring him past me not far after launch but never happened.

I've driven a GTi, and I can feel the difference in lag. It's certainly not as much of a shove in the back as the diesel. But it's still there and a little more progressive.

The gti did however accelerate much better from a rolling start where sometimes the supercharger doens't cut in each and every time (at least on my car)

Clearly everyone who's purchased a GTI should have purchased the much cheaper 118 TSI with it's tiny 1.4litre twin charger. The reviews and awards all still favour the GTI for some reason and the official times all show the GTI is way out in front.

You will note that I said high powered TDI meaning the 125kw version in the GT Sport not the lower powered ones. The GT Sport TDI is faster than the 118 TSI again using the figures provided by Volkswagen.

Of course until I see some official figures (not my mate and I were out and had a drag and especially not he has a manual and I have a DSG or vise versa) I call bull****. Real hard evidence, not VCDS logs which are not useful for comparisons with other cars, not my mate and I stories but real hard evidence.

[Corey_R]

Guys, just a reminder. It's against the rules to discuss or advocate illegal behavour such as street racing. Beyond that "I dragged some guy at the lights" is still not a controlled nor scientific or conclusive test. 118TSI owners who believe that it is faster need to provide some evidence sourced from a legal method. A magazine review. A youtube or TV review. A track day or drag strip day. Something where some actual testing equipment was used to measure actual speeds and produce accurate timing, and information on the car, driver, and conditions is known.

[Corey_R]

That's just silly!

Ok Stoney!, I think we all need to take a step back. There's no need to start going insulting people's opinions, we're all grown up here.
You implying that I'm silly for thinking that the Polo GTI feels quicker is.... well, I don't know mate. It shows a lack of familiarity (at a minimum) with the different VW cars. Of course a less refined car which wheel spins and then gets it's power in a larger surge is going to feel quicker. This is why all the Golf GTI owners think that their car "feels" quicker than the R which they've just test driven. It's just the way things are.

For example, a Go-kart feels quicker than most road cars... but they're not (superkarts on the other hand...).

Anyway - I know that you said that it's quicker off the mark, and I still doubt this and can't find any magazine review which even does 0-40 0-60 etc that agrees with you. But if you have no proof, I guess we can all leave it at that

[Olaf the Golaf]

Getting back to the topic this was started to be... i've had the 118TSi for a few months now and love it. i agree with most people at the start that it just didn't seem financially smart for me to buy a diesel engine when the fuel economy was only slightly better and the TDi cost so much more...

i test drove to polo gti and thought it was completely insane, ludicrous, addictive fun. but at the end of the day, i drive at lot of km's between 2 works and home, and wanted something comfy and yet powerful with good performance (so added the sports pack), i suppose i suffer from the stigma which used to be true about diesels being slow, etc, and (not sure if this is true of the golfs these days) didn't like the idea of a car which in 10 years pours black exhaust fumes out which i have seen on some older golfs, but that may be poor maintenance... i don't know. when i test drove it i also hated the turbo lag. i find the TSi perfect to deal with on a day to day basis. I intend to chip it, but want to try and hammer car loan and then chip it when warranty is out so i don't void it. Lastly, i LOVE the idea of the 118, the fact that such a tiny little engine can pull so hard, even just stock standard! i think it's amazing and i love it.

I refused to test drive the GTI because i think it would have made the TSi seem weak, and i didn't want that. If i really want to go out for a fast hoon, i just get out the motorbikes and head to the coast or mountains

[Frankenstrat]

Petrol/diesel, diesel/petrol You've got what you've got, live with it and love it. There's no need to feel any sense of superiority over the cars other people drive, it just makes you appear juvenile and none of us are guilty of that, are we?

[logger]

Nothing to say.