Golf 118TSI vs. 103TDI

[team_v]

Well now I've made up my mind the waiting begins - how to cope with a 5 month wait?

Congrats.


Pass the time buy buying stuff for your new car
Or working out which insurance company is going to be best, or what numberplate you could get etc.
Or just reading up on here about them or going for more test-drives at other dealers.

[Hadders]

Auto gearboxes

Comrades,

Bear with me if these are naïve questions but I’m no mechanic.

From a mosey through the specs, I see that the 118’s 7 speed DSG gives better consumption than the manual. However with the 103 there is the usual situation where the manual is slightly better than its DSG, which is only 6 speed.

Why only a 6 speed for that diesel? Is it because with the extra torque 6 gears are enough and the 6 speed is simpler, cheaper and more reliable?

Do the consumption specs indicate that the 7 speed is a more efficient unit than the 6 speed. If so why not put the 7 speed in the 103, like in the 77 diesel, where the auto box also has a consumption over the manual in town?

Thanks,

Hadders (Martin Hadley)

[Corey_R]

Comrades,

Bear with me if these are naïve questions but I’m no mechanic.

From a mosey through the specs, I see that the 118’s 7 speed DSG gives better consumption than the manual. However with the 103 there is the usual situation where the manual is slightly better than its DSG, which is only 6 speed.

Why only a 6 speed for that diesel? Is it because with the extra torque 6 gears are enough and the 6 speed is simpler, cheaper and more reliable?

Do the consumption specs indicate that the 7 speed is a more efficient unit than the 6 speed. If so why not put the 7 speed in the 103, like in the 77 diesel, where the auto box also has a consumption over the manual in town?

Thanks,

Hadders (Martin Hadley)

No problems, there's a few good questions there.

The 6 speed DSG is actually more expensive and complex, but hopefully just as reliable. As the first DSG design VW used, it has has two multi-plate wet-clutches. VW have rated it as being able to cope with up to 350NM of torque - but as many people know, it can cope with much much more (even VW use it for their race cars....).

The 7 speed DSG is a newer design which aims to simplify things and lower the manufacturing cost and the costs of maintenance etc. It uses a new dry-clutch design. I'm not exactly sure what the max torque VW have rated this for, but I believe they've set it to around 280NM. It can handle more than that, but it won't be taking 550NM any time soon like some people are running with the 6sp DSG.

So the reason that the 103TDI has the 6sp DSG is due to the torque spec of 320NM on that particular engine.

As for fuel consumption, I believe it's more a case of how well the gear ratios used in the 6sp DSG or 7sp DSG match up with the characteristics of the engine. There are several VW models using the 6sp DSG which has lower fuel conumption than their manual equiv - including the Golf GTI.

Hope that helps

[khamtran]

I've read that the 7-speed DSG is built to handle a maximum of 250Nm of torque which would be the reason for the 103TDI not getting it.

[lawrunz]

I recently read this article in a magazine (Car and Driver) and the reviewer seems to indicate that the 103TDI has firmer suspension and sharper steering... (6th paragraph onwards)

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q4/2010_volkswagen_golf_tdi-short_take_road_test

Now I've looked through the specs sheet on the VWAus website and there appears to be no differences between the suspension/steering of the 118TSI and the 103TDI.

Is there any truth to the reviewer's comment or is this a case of the US get different specced cars?

[Hadders]

Diesels

Many thanks for the responses to my recent post.

One more question, at the risk of being expelled as an heretic.

My mechanic wants my next car to be Japanese. He thinks they are much easier to work on with everything where it should be.

Does anyone have a view on the Mazda 3 diesel?

The engine specs look impressive but no auto box is available.

Cheers,

Hadders (Martin Hadley)

[Zeke]

Hoi Poloi , If you have to wait 5 months ,did you consider asking about the GTD
which is expected here around June.

[Corey_R]

Many thanks for the responses to my recent post.

One more question, at the risk of being expelled as an heretic.

My mechanic wants my next car to be Japanese. He thinks they are much easier to work on with everything where it should be.

Does anyone have a view on the Mazda 3 diesel?

The engine specs look impressive but no auto box is available.

Cheers,

Hadders (Martin Hadley)

To be honest I don't really hold Mazda in high regard. Their engines are not overly powerful and not overly fuel efficient. In fact, considering power vs efficiency, they can be some of the worst in their class.

The Mazda 3 diesel isn't too bad, but there are somethings I'd highlight.
It's 161kg heavier @ 1425kg compared to Maxx Sport.
Compare that with the 103TDI Comfortline Golf which is only 50kg heavier @ 1360kg compared to the 118TSI Comfortline Golf.

Fuel consumption for the Mazda is 7.0/5.0/5.7 (Urban,Highway,Combined) vs
fuel comsumption for the Golf of 6.8/4.4/5.3

The mazda does have more power:
Power 110kW @ 3500rpm
Torque 360Nm @ 1800rpm

But then the Golf has its power at higher RPMs and its torque over a wider range:
Power 103kW @ 4000rpm
Torque 320Nm @ 1750-2500rpm

Mazda doesn't list 0-100 times for its cars, but it's power to weight is worse than the Golfs's due to the higher wait. Also, since the Golf has a good enthusiast following, you can do an Oettinger ECU flash to upgrade to 125kw/370NM.

The Golf also has the DSG option, and is a much nicer quality car inside etc.

The other thing I've been told (but not verified myself) is that Mazda don't have options for the diesel models which are available on the petrol models (even things like Stereo upgrades etc which you'd think wouldn't matter whether it was a petrol or a diesel).

I'd personally buy the car you want to buy, and then switch mechanics if they don't have the tools, equipment and skills, to service the car that you purchase

[Frankenstrat]

I also have a United Grey 103TDi. Perfect colour since it doesn't show up as much grit/dust on the vehicle even after a light drizzle.

Well I hope you're right, XRR, not that we're likely to get light drizzle any time soon in Perth! I picked up my United Grey 103TDI manual on Wednesday evening, and SFSG (so far so good), although I managed to stall it entering the car park at work this morning. Doh! Fortunately I didn't have an audience to witness my faux pas.

Does anyone have a view on the Mazda 3 diesel?

It's ugly. The previous model Mazda3 (pre-cartoon intake) was a handsome set of wheels.

[hoi polloi]

Does anyone have a view on the Mazda 3 diesel?

As you said - great engine but look at the sheet metal it's wrapped in!



Regards,
- Anthony.

[hoi polloi]

Congrats.


Pass the time buy buying stuff for your new car
Or working out which insurance company is going to be best, or what numberplate you could get etc.
Or just reading up on here about them or going for more test-drives at other dealers.

Thanks mate...

Insurance for me is a lot less on the diesel than for either the 118TSI or GTI (which were only $30 per year different to each other for me).

Number plates are relatively simple in NSW - it's either Euro or black Euro (which have smaller front plates).

I'm sure if I deny myself now it'll make me appreciate it more when it does come

Regards,
- Anthony.

[Greg Roles]

I recently read this article in a magazine (Car and Driver) and the reviewer seems to indicate that the 103TDI has firmer suspension and sharper steering... (6th paragraph onwards)

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q4/2010_volkswagen_golf_tdi-short_take_road_test

Now I've looked through the specs sheet on the VWAus website and there appears to be no differences between the suspension/steering of the 118TSI and the 103TDI.

Is there any truth to the reviewer's comment or is this a case of the US get different specced cars?

My vote is because the donk is almost 100kg heavier in the TDI, so it is more "nose heavy" aiding steering etc. I've read the exact same comment about the MKV GT's. Perhaps TDI's have higher rating front springs due to the extra engine weight as well??

[Greg Roles]

Well now I've made up my mind the waiting begins - how to cope with a 5 month wait?

Spend your time searching the word "Provent", sadly the modern diesels biggest downfall.

[Frankenstrat]

What's the downfall, Cogdoc? Having a Provent or not having a Provent? Hmm, that sounds a bit Oscar Wildish; "There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's NOT being talked about".

[team_v]

What's the downfall, Cogdoc? Having a Provent or not having a Provent? Hmm, that sounds a bit Oscar Wildish; "There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's NOT being talked about".

Having a provent almost solves the DPF issue that the new diesels have.

The DPF clogs up and costs $5k to replace.
It also throws error codes if you do lots of low rev city driving or short distance travel.