Volkswagen Oz Screwing Oz Buyers

[DarkCloudNebulae]

PS. maybe the ADRs should ban hose? it would be more simple and stop both hangings AND gassings? not to mention being sued by that robber that trips on the rolls of it you have in your garden...

Oh how Americanised <google dictionary has that!) we have become... Sorry, AmericaniZed...

[pologti18t]

So why force it in Victoria? Absolutely pointless and just another "tax" in Australia. ESP will make stuff all difference to the road toll, they would have been better off putting up another 100 safety cameras!

Because state governments can do that.

Look at the USA. They have two sets of emission laws! one for the majority of states. Another stricter set for a few east coast states plus california. Think of the cost to the manufacturers...who usually pass it on to the customer.

[Corey_R]

So why force it in Victoria? Absolutely pointless and just another "tax" in Australia. ESP will make stuff all difference to the road toll, they would have been better off putting up another 100 safety cameras

Actually, I disagree there. I can't remember where I read it, but there are several categories of 'crashes' which summaries the cause. Sleep was obviously one, because our speed limits are too low on many of our highways! Recklessness is another. But another one of the big causes is swerving to avoid something (or not paying attention and finding yourself where you shouldn't being), swerving back, and then upsetting the car because of the sudden change of direction so that you othen end up in a slide which the drive cannot correct from. The majority of roll-overs is also caused by this. A competent ESP prevents this occurence.

ESP will also go a long way to assisting people in not doing silly things in wet weather

[Maverick]

Actually, I disagree there. I can't remember where I read it, but there are several categories of 'crashes' which summaries the cause. Sleep was obviously one, because our speed limits are too low on many of our highways! Recklessness is another. But another one of the big causes is swerving to avoid something (or not paying attention and finding yourself where you shouldn't being), swerving back, and then upsetting the car because of the sudden change of direction so that you othen end up in a slide which the drive cannot correct from. The majority of roll-overs is also caused by this. A competent ESP prevents this occurence.

ESP will also go a long way to assisting people in not doing silly things in wet weather

Or ESP will encourage people to drive faster which is what occurs after people know they have it fitted and they crash at a higher speed! This will be a problem with P platers for sure, instead of finding out where the limit is by having the car get a little unsteady they'll end up going faster and faster until the ESP is unable to do anything to correct the car.

The objection I have is that you have a state government mandating this when the federal government is looking at this and also without thought to the costs to the public. They are also mandating curtain airbags. IMO it's up to the public to choose what they want, is it better that someone buys a new car with ABS and some airbags and a good crash rating or because they're now priced out of the new car market decides to buy an older car that only has a rudimentary ABS system, poor handling and a few old airbags?

This now means you can't buy any cars without ESP, what about the new Lexus supercar as it doesn't have ESP (or curtain airbags for that matter). And how many cars don't have curtain airbags? A whole heap don't have them especially 4WD's, work vehicles, convertibles and sports cars (Ferrari etc).

Needless to say there will be exemptions for vehicles, the other states will follow but one will only require ESP whereas another will only require curtain airbags and we'll end up with more increased costs to the public through increased registration to administer these new regulations, exemptions and increased vehicle costs.

(btw I was joking about the speed cameras)

[pologti18t]

Well, convertibles are obviously exempt from requiring curtain airbags. They usually are fitted with my bigger side airbags that provide head protection.

All Victoria is doing is bring forward the introduction of ESP. Not very bright but it seems the manufacturers are towing the line and fitting it standard to more and more cars.

IMO it's up to the public to choose what they want, is it better that someone buys a new car with ABS and some airbags and a good crash rating or because they're now priced out of the new car market decides to buy an older car that only has a rudimentary ABS system, poor handling and a few old airbags?

You can get cars with the LOT for under 20K at the moment. If you can't afford that then $500-1000 extra you think for ESP/Curtain Airbags will add wont make a difference to a buyers ability to pay.

[Kirium]

Because state governments can do that.

Look at the USA. They have two sets of emission laws! one for the majority of states. Another stricter set for a few east coast states plus california. Think of the cost to the manufacturers...who usually pass it on to the customer.

Comparing Victoria to California isn't really an apples and apples comparison. California had 32,000,000 vehicles registered as of 1/1/2009 and likely purchases more vehicles per year than Australia as a whole does in 2 or 3 years. The US sold over 16m vehicles in 2007, (which was 2.5% down on 06), and conservatively, 10% of that is California. Global car manufacturers can't ignore a state like that when it legislates its own emissions regs. Victoria sells how many vehicles per year? 30,000? GM alone probably sell that many cars in California in 2 or 3 months (based on them selling 150,000 vehicles in November 09 across the US).

[Flighter]

I don't have children, just myself and my girlfriend. So the two doors isn't the issue. It's rear seat space for the times that our adult friends come out with us. The Golf can comfortably seat three 6ft adults (although slim if they all want their shoulders against the seat back).

I understood that the centre headrest is not height adjustable, making it suitable for kids only (and possibly only young ones only at that); at least if passenger safety is a prime concern.

[Corey_R]

I understood that the centre headrest is not height adjustable, making it suitable for kids only (and possibly only young ones only at that); at least if passenger safety is a prime concern.

Yeah - you're correct. I was just stating that it is large enough to.
But as you mentioned, you'd only want to have a child or small teen sitting there for 'every day driving'.
But my point still stands, the MK6 Golf can seat two 6ft adults and a child in the back. The Scirocco can only seat two ~5ft 8inch adults and no child in the back, as there is no 'centre bench seat' and the roof level is much lower in the back of the Scirocco!

[Maverick]

Well, convertibles are obviously exempt from requiring curtain airbags. They usually are fitted with my bigger side airbags that provide head protection.

And this comes back to what is the purpose of this? Cars are getting safer and people can choose the level of safety they want.

I would put money on the Golf without curtain airbags being safer than a Hyundai with curtain airbags.

So really this is all about being seen to do something and will achieve nothing but higher prices. The number of lives saved from side airbags will be minimal each year.

All Victoria is doing is bring forward the introduction of ESP. Not very bright but it seems the manufacturers are towing the line and fitting it standard to more and more cars.

And there are cars that don't/won't have it so they will either have to be given exemptions or will only be sold in other states, people that want them will buy the car new in another state and re-register it in that state (as it won't be new but a transfer) and the only winner will be the other state get's a heap of stamp duty.

You can get cars with the LOT for under 20K at the moment. If you can't afford that then $500-1000 extra you think for ESP/Curtain Airbags will add wont make a difference to a buyers ability to pay.

But it's that $500-1000 on top of the $1000 extra in power bills and $500 extra in rates and $500 a year extra in tolls and $1000 a year for Kevin 747's ETS and $500 a year in this and $1000 a year in that that could push a new safer car out of reach.

Australia has one of the oldest car fleets in the country, surely a priority should be getting the old junkers off the road and replace them with newer ones? But there is no incentive to do this with the amount of taxes/duties/levies in every car and the payment of stamp duty on top and now being forced to take ESP and curtain airbags.

The states have to have powers stripped from them and the first place needs to be anything surrounding the roads and vehicles, there are too many state based "road safety" groups that make ridiculous short sighted decisions and it's no wonder the ADR's are out of date in so many areas and we're falling so far behind the rest of the world.

There have been a number of people incinerated in cars recently so WTF haven't any of these groups considered mandating fire extinguishers, first aid kits, vests, safety hammers and warning triangles like other countries have had for 20+ years? These are minimal cost additions (<$100 per car) that will save lives and a hell of a lot more than ESP and curtain airbags will.

In Queensland the road safety group keep voting against tightening up driver training and making licenses harder to get as they don't want to increase the costs for getting a license because it's not fair.... they're quite happy to introduce more speed cameras to reduce the road toll (except the opposite occurred once again). They keep knocking back ANPR cameras as they say they're ineffective at cutting the road toll (despite their extensive use in the UK actually getting unlicensed drivers and unregistered cars off the road) and the state governments own figures showing ~8% of drivers and cars are unregistered and unlicensed and they're involved in 20% of fatal accidents

The real truth is that ANPR technology will cost money to implement and whilst it will pay for itself in fines and cars to crush that same money could be spent on speed.... I mean safety cameras and the ROI will be one hundred fold and there won't be any bad publicity when the driver who has had his license suspended for the 43rd time is dumped on the side of the road with his 5 kids and 2 pets and the car is sent away to be crushed. Not to mention the driver will never pay the fine and it'll be written off.

[CatonaPC©]

As I was clearly made aware of in my GTI Academy track day, ESP works extremely well. But, (and this is big BUT) if you get into a situation where ESP needs to kick in, you had better hope it does before you end up hitting something like a tree or an oncoming vehicle. It is cenrtainly not an alternative to proper and responsioble car control.

I don't believe ESP will make one iota of a difference to the rate of crashes. They need to stop handing out licences to people who have passed the test, as opposed to learnt to drive.

[dencar]

I have a GTD on order, if it ever comes to OZ.......... It is particularly galling that bi-xenons are available across the range in NZ. Given the uncertainty of my GTD order I would seriously consider an optioned-up 103TDI, but not unless bi-xenons were available.

My dealer now quotes 3rd quarter delivery on my GTD. He also says I could change to an optioned-up 103TDI with bi-xenons, so that's a bit of a break-through. I'm going to stick with the GTD, though.

[Corey_R]

They need to stop handing out licences to people who have passed the test, as opposed to learnt to drive.

But Australia has never taught learners how to drive! That is my big issue, we're taught how to operate a car and follow road rules and navigate traffic... but we're never taught how to really drive, how to handle your car, how to react when the car has lost grip etc.

[Brian]

And this comes back to what is the purpose of this? Cars are getting safer and people can choose the level of safety they want.

I would put money on the Golf without curtain airbags being safer than a Hyundai with curtain airbags.

Sorry Maverick, but unless you can substantiate this then I think you're full of ****. The ANCAP ratings account for all makes and models and to say that VW (or any other maker ) is bettter than Hyundai (or any other maker) is ludicrous.
Come back with some facts!

[evorobin]

The number of lives saved from side airbags will be minimal each year.

That's true huh

[Brian]

That's true huh

Your posting of a crash picture does not substantiate anything to do with side air bags. In fact the picture you have posted appears to be from some competition event and not a "normal" road event. The addition of extra air bags is going to help no matter what the crash scene