P-Plate High Performance Vehicles

[sreay]

wrong details

its supercharged/turbo charged and its 118kw not 90kw unless of single turbo

quote from http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...010760,00.html

"Even the Carsguide Car of the Year, the 1.4-litre, twin-turbocharged VW Golf, which has a five-star safety rating and features six airbags and stability control, is on the banned list because it has a turbocharger. Yet is has an output of 90kilowatts of power, which is 10kW less than a Toyota Corolla."

[bmck]

Sreay,

Yes, there were a few inaccuracies in the story (seven airbags, not six), but the intent remains the same - and, if anything, the 90kw scenario hightlights the case moreso.

[GolfAtom]

Saw a P plated Porsche Boxster in the weekend driven by a tentative novice...shouldn't the Boxster be on the banned list? I agree with a lot of the comments here that power-to-weight ratio should be one of the criterion for the p-platers banned list of vehicles but in the end, it's only a band-aid solution - it's the person behind the wheel that counts. It's only those hoons who make it difficult for majority.

[The_Hawk]

Whilst manufacturer weights and power figures would be just as easy to enforce, aftermarket modifications would require individiaul checks on the weight and power of selected vehicles to ensure that the fine is legit.

So banning cars with power to weight ratio's would be a better system but how are the police going to know if you did an ECU and intake mod and removed the spare tyre and used lightweight rims putting over the power/weight limit that stated the car was driveable?

I don't agree with the current system but it is the easiest system to enforce out of the other alternatives in my opinion.

Agreed, people could mod their otherwise standard cars past a line in the sand, especially with new turbo engines. But if we look at this for a minute, I have taken the base model with auto transmission where there is an option:

The new 3L Holden 6 is 190kW @ 1,685kg = ~113kW/T
V6 (older style engine) ute is 210kW @ 1783kg = ~121kW/T
Ford Falcon is 195kW @ 1,704kw = ~114kW/T.
Toyota Camry has 117kw and comes in at ~82kW/T
The Carolla isn't far behind at ~79kW/T


Golf 77TDI (DSG) is 77kW @ 1,330 = ~58kW/T
Golf 103TDI (DSG) is 103kW @ 1,380 = ~75kW/T
Golf 90TSI (DSG) is 90kW @ 1,290 = ~70kW/T
Golf 118TSI (DSG) is 118kW @ 1,330 = ~89kW/T
Golf GTI (DSG) is 155kW @ 1,380kg = ~112kW/T
Golf R32 (DSG) is 184kW @ 1,530kg = ~120kW/T

Looking at only the two standard Aussie "family sedans" you can see any power to weight would have to be over those figures as a minimum which easily includes the Golf's including the GTI, hell the 118TSI at it's beastly ~89kW/T is barely more powerful than a Carolla (although I know which one I want). Assuming a V6 Holden ute is legal you include the R32 too

I understand it would be hard(er) to manage if people mod their vehicles, but I would suggest that would be the minority (of p plater drivers). The same approach to what we do now for noise or pollution can work just as easily, basically if you get pinged you must get it tested, otherwise it's assumed it's within limits. When it comes to enforcement YES! People could break the law and mod their cars in one way or another to get more power out and YES they could run different tunes to achieve that, although I'd take a stab and say these people most likely just drive round their turbo or V8 cars now anyway.

From the higher end of town:
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo is 217kW @ 1,595kw = ~136kW/T
The Subaru Impreza WRX (manual) is 195kW @ 1,410kg = ~138kW/T
The Nissan Silvia is 184kW @ 1270kg = ~145kw/T
(In it's NA form it's 121kW = ~95kW)
The Commodore SS V8 is 260kW @ 1,777kg = ~146kW/T


The "line" would have to be somewhere in between these and the above.

To be honest I'm a little surprised at the results, I didn't think they would all be so close, but here we are. Setting a limit at 125kW/T covers all the "family cars" but includes some decent opions from the VAG garage. In many respects an inexperienced driver would be better off behind the wheel of a GTI than they would the [comparatively] boat like Commodore with his foot to the floor.

[bmck]

Setting a limit at 125kW/T covers all the "family cars" but includes some decent opions from the VAG garage. In many respects an inexperienced driver would be better off behind the wheel of a GTI than they would the [comparatively] boat like Commodore with his foot to the floor.

Hawk,

Well said.

Here's a story from March '09 suggesting that Victoria agrees with your suggestion of 125kW/t (However, again, I can see problems with their definition (whatever it is) of "family type" and "sport type")

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/D18734A8AFB6530ECA257582000FE339

[nicandlance]

Less power than a Toyota Corolla?

This article states that 'Even the Carsguide Car of the Year, the 1.4-litre, twin-turbocharged VW Golf, which has a five-star safety rating and features six airbags and stability control, is on the banned list because it has a turbocharger. Yet is has an output of 90kilowatts of power, which is 10kW less than a Toyota Corolla'.


I know I'm being picky, but they have that wrong.... the twincharged model has 118kw of power. Aren't they talking about the 90tsi here?

Don't think they did their homework on models...

P.S - When do you pick up your tsi?

[bmck]

I know I'm being picky, but they have that wrong.... the twincharged model has 118kw of power. Aren't they talking about the 90tsi here?

Don't think they did their homework on models...

P.S - When do you pick up your tsi?

Nic,

Yes, as noted earlier, there were a few factual inaccuracies, but these shouldn't detract from the gist of the story.

(The conversation went a little like this... The jouranalist was asking my opinion regarding my 118TSI being classed as a HPV when he made the observation "I suppose the 90TSI falls into the same category". This probably lead to a little confusion)

My 118TSI has successfully passed through quarantine(!) and customs in Melbourne and, according to last report, was aboard a train to Brisbane. It's a well-travelled beast. I'm hoping for good news late this week!

[nicandlance]

Yes, sorry.

Good to hear about your car being on the way.... will there be pics to follow?

Mine is still on board the ship - somewhere near Sth Africa!

[bmck]

Mine is still on board the ship - somewhere near Sth Africa!

Are you tracking the ship's progress?

I used this... http://aprs.fi/?call=2CQX6&mt=m&z=11&timerange=3600 ...to track the Toscana. It was pretty entertaining, but disappeared between Durban and Freemantle. Naturally, I was worried about Somali pirates.

I next spotted it on the Fremantle port webcam... http://www.fremantleports.com.au/Shi...er/Webcam1.asp

Unfortunately, all this monitoring did not speed up the journey.

[nicandlance]

I have - but I'll be glad when it's safe in my hands!!

[The_Hawk]

Here's a story from March '09 suggesting that Victoria agrees with your suggestion of 125kW/t (However, again, I can see problems with their definition (whatever it is) of "family type" and "sport type")

You know I started writing up a thing that said:
less than 100kW/T = Fine
100 - 125kW/T would be application based, but pretty easy to get.
Then over 125kW/T would be excluded unless there was damn good reason, but still application based

That 100 - 125kW class could also include some "pre approved" cars which don't require special applications and maybe something like "all naturally aspirated vehicles".

When it's just a black and white in/out list it's easy enough to police since you know that a P plate on car XXX should not be there and since, according to the stats, there are very very few exemptions that have been handed out (in NSW at least) compared to the number of P plate drivers there is a good chance the driver should not be behind the wheel of that car. When you introduce that grey area in the middle of easy to get permits it would mean that plenty of cars *could* be OK... Which means most things under the 125kW limit would most likely not be checked (unless your acting a tool in which case you deserve to be hassled ).

What really annoys me though it articles like that which while it is in principle, it is only talking about kW, not power to weight because by their logic it would seem that the 195kW WRX should also be fine since it had less power than the Aurion... FAIL... Things like that hurt the cause rather than help since they are taking the stats all out of context and give people ammunition to throw back against what many enthusiast [rightly] believe is the way things should be done to be consistent.

[bmck]

This received from Queensland Transport today...

The department has since gained approval to lead a national review of high-powered vehicle restrictions from the Austroads Registration and Licensing Taskforce.

Without wanting to pre-empt the outcomes of the review, it is anticipated that the department will make recommendations for a more consistently applied high-powered vehicle definition.

It is also anticipated that recommendations for high-powered vehicle restrictions would be easily enforceable and cognisant of the safety features on some smaller vehicles with turbocharged or supercharged engines.

The department has recently met with RACQ to discuss this issue and advised them of the national review

Ends

[GTI2708]

LOL I have the MK6 GTI that is my mums atm but will be mine when i get my P's.
Hahah
There's a way top get around it tho.
You are able to get a letter of exemption from vic roads if your parents onl own cars that are more powerful.
My dad has a V8 Merc and so i should be alroight.

[The_Hawk]

LOL I have the MK6 GTI that is my mums atm but will be mine when i get my P's.
Hahah
There's a way top get around it tho.
You are able to get a letter of exemption from vic roads if your parents onl own cars that are more powerful.
My dad has a V8 Merc and so i should be alroight.

I don't know the VIC laws but the NSW ones out and out say it's not a guarantee you'll get an exemption just because your parents own it, even if it's the only car available.

[GTI2708]

I don't know the VIC laws but the NSW ones out and out say it's not a guarantee you'll get an exemption just because your parents own it, even if it's the only car available.

Yeah i think thats right....but ah well...i'll sort it out when the time comes.
lol