First service at 7,500 km?

[brad]

If you're doing oil top ups, shouldn't you have the exact same oil that is already in there?

Or doesn't it matter if you have Castol SW30 in there and then top it up with Mobile 1 ESP 5w30 for example?

Doesn't matter.

[G-rig]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.

[barrenjoey owl]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.

I'm not trying to start a war but I'd really appreciate it if you could advise me why you don't believe what the manufacturer says about the oil change frequency. Is there something you can post here?

cheers

[G-rig]

I'm not trying to start a war but I'd really appreciate it if you could advise me why you don't believe what the manufacturer says about the oil change frequency. Is there something you can post here?

cheers

Refer to the first few pages.

[Diesel_vert]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.

Australian conditions are considered severe (driving in Sydney is, anyway) hence the fixed 15,000 km/1 year oil changes.

I'd just change the oil filter and top up every 7,500 km, which should be plenty until the next service. No need to drain the oil every 7,500 km unless you aren't using 504 00/507 00 oils or have more dollars than sense.

That said, checking the oil level every 1,000 km and topping up if necessary is important. One of the caveats with extended service intervals is that some of the maintenance responsibilities (just the little things) fall on the owner. Replenishing fluids, especially oil, in between services play an important role in ensuring the longevity of the vehicle long after the warranty expires.

[G-rig]

My R32 requires 502.00 but as i said "It doesn't hurt" and I'm unsure what the exact terms of 'severe' are. Still a bit odd there is no initial oil change after 1000km?

[Brian]

15,000km is a bit too far apart.

I change mine every 7,500. It doesn't cost much maybe another $160 per year for the piece of mind.

Although the dealer service guy said you don't need to, but they probably only care about it lasting for 3 years and AUS operating conditions could be considered 'servere' but there are no measurable quantities to that definition.

From the Valvoline web site and backed up by a friend who is a Valvoline rep.

"VOLKSWAGEN
Golf 118TSI, 1390cm³ Turbo Eng., 6-Spd. Man/ 7-Spd. DSG (2009)

Crankcase

SYNPOWER XL III 5W-30
A premium, long life synthetic motor oil designed for Volkswagen Euro IV engines with DPF (Diesel Particle Filter) technology. The product can also be used where VW 503.00, 506.00, 506.01 are specified. SynPower XL-III 5W-30 is suitable for engines with WIV system and for extra long drain intervals up to 30.000 Km. or 2 years. SynPower XL-III SAE 5W-30 can be used in modern VW, AUDI, Seat and Skoda gasoline and diesel engines and gives excellent protection even under extreme circumstances."

I feel confident I can do a change at 15K with out detriment to the engine when the oil manufacturer says 30K ("even under extreme circumstances"). To me that is a large margin of error. I'm sure the other spec 504 / 507 oil makers will back it up the same. Dont throw your money away unless you have plenty of it.
Brian

[brad]

Crankcase

SYNPOWER XL III 5W-30
A premium, long life synthetic motor oil designed for Volkswagen Euro IV engines with DPF (Diesel Particle Filter) technology. The product can also be used where VW 503.00, 506.00, 506.01 are specified. SynPower XL-III 5W-30 is suitable for engines with WIV system and for extra long drain intervals up to 30.000 Km. or 2 years. SynPower XL-III SAE 5W-30 can be used in modern VW, AUDI, Seat and Skoda gasoline and diesel engines and gives excellent protection even under extreme circumstances."[/B][/I]

I've got that in my 1.8TSI at the moment. I'd assume because it's 5w and a fraction thinner but I get the tiniest bit (maybe half a second) of lifter rattle on cold start compared to the 10w30 Castrol Edge Sport. Will be trying the 504 spec Shell product next time around.

[G-rig]

I feel confident I can do a change at 15K with out detriment to the engine when the oil manufacturer says 30K ("even under extreme circumstances"). To me that is a large margin of error. I'm sure the other spec 504 / 507 oil makers will back it up the same. Dont throw your money away unless you have plenty of it.
Brian

Well it's your car, and it's not exactly a lot of money at stake.

[Diesel_vert]

My R32 requires 502.00 but as i said "It doesn't hurt" and I'm unsure what the exact terms of 'severe' are. Still a bit odd there is no initial oil change after 1000km?

The penny drops. If you're using 502 00, then naturally, one wouldn't feel confident of it lasting 15,000 km under severe conditions. Also, I don't know of any European manufacturer that still has a 1,000 km oil change.

What I can do is answer your question about "severe conditions" - an extract of my earlier post:

LongLife Regime
To obtain the most benefit from the LongLife service regime, the car should to be generally driven in a style/condition of use listed below:
• Mainly longer distance journeys
• Limited number of cold starts, engine is kept at operating temperature over a longer period of time
• Daily mileage above approx. 40 km
• Constant speed
• Vehicle used regularly

Time/Distance Regime
If your car is driven in a style if listed below, it may be more appropriate to opt for the Time and Distance regime:
• Extremely uneconomical driving style ie continual maximum acceleration ie. ‘foot to floor’
• Vehicle fully loaded
• Mainly short journeys
• Frequent cold starts
• Frequent hill climbs
• Frequent towing
• City centre driving

The LongLife Regime is a flexible service schedule ranging from 15,000 km/1 year to 30,000 km/2 years and anywhere in between as the computer deems necessary.

The Time/Distance Regime is a fixed service schedule of 15,000 km/1 year intervals. The conditions Volkswagen have outlined here are the "severe conditions" you asked about - as driving in Sydney or Melbourne will attest. You can see why Volkswagen decided not to implement the LL Regime here - we city folk basically operate under severe conditions most of the time.

We all know 504 00/507 00 oils can hack it, but we don't know if all 502 00 oils can do likewise (LL Regimes didn't exist when 502 00 was conceived). And since we don't know, then I can see why you feel the need to halve the recommended interval.

[Maverick]

The Time/Distance Regime is a fixed service schedule of 15,000 km/1 year intervals. The conditions Volkswagen have outlined here are the "severe conditions" you asked about - as driving in Sydney or Melbourne will attest. You can see why Volkswagen decided not to implement the LL Regime here - we city folk basically operate under severe conditions most of the time.]

The Volkswagen manuals state 15,000km or 1 year service intervals but under under severe conditions more frequent servicing is required.

We all know 504 00/507 00 oils can hack it, but we don't know if all 502 00 oils can do likewise (LL Regimes didn't exist when 502 00 was conceived). And since we don't know, then I can see why you feel the need to halve the recommended interval.

The oil doesn't come into it, the manual states more frequent servicing if the car is driven under severe conditions.

If the owner chooses to do extra oil changes this is their choice, changing every 7,500km or 6 months is NOT overkill and especially important in the higher powered engines (more so if they are chipped).

More dealers are using 504.00/507.00 oils across the board (except in a few specific models) in their servicing and I would expect over time they will all use 504.00/507.00 oils.

504.00/507.00 isn't a magic elixir, like all oils it holds contaminants, it breaks down and it requires replacement. It may last longer than a 502.00 but under severe conditions the manufacturers instructions which are detailed in black and white in the manual and service software should be followed.

Volkswagen like all manufacturers are under pressure to build greener cars, extended intervals and no 1000km oil change are more to do with reducing oil usage than saving us money and those that keep their car long term would be advised to perform extra oil changes due to the low cost.

[Diesel_vert]

If the owner chooses to do extra oil changes this is their choice, changing every 7,500km or 6 months is NOT overkill and especially important in the higher powered engines (more so if they are chipped).

Of course. Those with modified vehicles are expected to service their car more frequently, at their discretion.

Volkswagen like all manufacturers are under pressure to build greener cars, extended intervals and no 1000km oil change are more to do with reducing oil usage than saving us money...

Indeed, manufacturers are heading that way (which is no bad thing IMHO), but it doesn't mean these new challenges haven't been met.

I've visited the forums at TDIClub and made two observations which are relevant to us.

1. Over a period of more than two years worth of UOA's, the general consensus is that 504/507 oils better protect the engine than the previous 505 01 oils - despite the lower viscosity (30 vs 40), SAPS restriction, lower TBN and (sometimes) fuel economy gains.

- We see here that 504/507 enables better protection (tick) and has better environmental credentials. (tick)

2. From the UOA's that I've seen using these oils, there were some which indicated the oil was near its limit at 9,000 mi (14,000 km), and some which indicated the oil would be good for 15,000 mi (24,000 km). But most were good for around the 10~12,000 mi (16~19,000 km) mark.

- This is real world data showing how well suited these oils are for 15,000 km drain intervals - at least for TDI's, because finding UOA's on FSI engines using 504/507 oils seem to be rarer.

[Bayman]

Lots of info here chaps but I have a 7mth old Tiguan 103TDI and have done 9000kms having been too busy at Christmas to get the oil changed. One guy at the dealer says leave it until 15000kms and the other guy says maybe get it done. I ran my Tiguan on Shell Diesel for 5 mths before swapping to Caltex Diesel Premium Vortex and now I am perplexed as what to do? Is the Diesel in Aust high sulphur? Maybe I get the oil changed at 10000kms anyway? I have been told the oil is thinner from the factory fill and is a mix of mineral oil/synthetic and helps bed in the rings so maybe there is merit in this theory.

Anyone willing to provide ideas which way I should proceed? Thanks

[Corey_R]

Diesel in Australia is higher sulphur than Europe. I believe that the BP Ultimate Diesel is one of the first 'low sulphur' diesels in Australia, but it's not that wide spread yet. I haven't personally heard (or maybe I haven't been paying attention) to what Shell and Caltex are up to with their diesel fuels.

As for this debate... do what the manual says - VW Australia will honour the warranty as long as you've followed that

[Diesel_vert]

Diesel in Australia is higher sulphur than Europe. I believe that the BP Ultimate Diesel is one of the first 'low sulphur' diesels in Australia, but it's not that wide spread yet. I haven't personally heard (or maybe I haven't been paying attention) to what Shell and Caltex are up to with their diesel fuels.

By law from 1 January 2009, Australian diesel (and likewise in the EU) cannot have sulfur levels exceeding 10 ppm. BP released it prior to the deadline. Caltex was granted an extension until its refineries were up to 10 ppm sulfur standards (mid-2009). Apart from that, our diesel is very much comparable with the EU. In fact, our petrol is now the dirtier fuel as it still allows 50 ppm of sulfur (EU allows 10 ppm for petrol). These measures were created to reduce particulate matter (PM) emitted from diesel exhaust and prevent the new diesel particulate filters (DPF) from clogging up, but had the side benefit of reducing acid buildup in the engine oil, thus allowing extended drain intervals, even with lower TBN.

As for your car Bayman, Volkswagen's 15,000 km/1 year recommendation is quite alright, as proved by the guys over at TDIClub forums (great knowledge base for all things TDI). Save your time and resources on using the car regularly.