118TSI - General Discussion

[The_Hawk]

Thats a nice run! My 118 has done the pistons (repaired under extended good will warranty) and the manual gear box not too long ago (which I paid for). Only done 58k since new in 2011.

The idea for slightly heavier oil is a trick I've used in older cars over the years, as long as it's getting changed regularly it's never caused issues for me.

Good luck, and may the odds be ever in your favour!

[Bushman111]

Hey does anyone here know how hard someone would have to drive into a tree to do $12000 worth of damage to a 2010 118TSI ? The engine needs a rebuild... Asking for a friend ��. Seriously though, what option do I have to get rid of a car that would cost just as much to fix as I would get for it once fixed?

[gerhard]

Hey does anyone here know how hard someone would have to drive into a tree to do $12000 worth of damage to a 2010 118TSI ? The engine needs a rebuild... Asking for a friend ��. Seriously though, what option do I have to get rid of a car that would cost just as much to fix as I would get for it once fixed?

Not difficult to do $12k damage to a car worth maybe $2,000. Seriously, do you think a 14 year old 118TSI with blown engine is worth $12,000??

[The_Hawk]

Carsales shows the 118TSI for about that. Bordering into GTI territory and no one who knows them would recommend buying one... but that's (apparently) what they go for. (and oddly it seems to be more than the Cabriolet version at the moment!).

Redbook says closer to $6k! (not that I ever really trust Redbook)

Insured value is an easy $12k.

[gerhard]

Carsales shows the 118TSI for about that. Bordering into GTI territory and no one who knows them would recommend buying one... but that's (apparently) what they go for. (and oddly it seems to be more than the Cabriolet version at the moment!).

Redbook says closer to $6k! (not that I ever really trust Redbook)

Insured value is an easy $12k.

Tell 'em they're dreaming A 14 year old car with 180,000k and a BLOWN ENGINE will fetch maybe $2000 from someone who knows how to replace the engine with a proper one.

The insured value on the 16 year old GTI I just sold, with less than 100,000 and a good engine, was $4500 with possible agreed value up to $7800.

[The_Hawk]

I'm not suggesting that one with a blown engine would be worth that, just saying that carsales have working examples for around $12k and I can see the insured value being around there too.

In my experience, the insured value of any given vehicle has seemingly zero correlation with the potential sale price I've had cars that I could only insure for less than their replacement value as well as cars insured for twice what I could actually sell them for... I swear they make numbers up sometimes.


As for what to do with it that isn't outright insurance fraud...

You could attempt to trade it in on something else with a dealer of some sort. Sometimes they will offer a nominal value just to get a sale, I wouldn't offer up the issue, let them find it if they bother to look. If it doesn't have a check engine light on maybe even a half decent price... maybe. But pretty much everyone knows this engine so I don't like your chances.

You could attempt to part it out if it's otherwise in good nick, but they are getting old and there isn't really much of significant value inside. But hey, people need replacement seats or random trim pieces all the time... Of course having to deal with that is a pain in the arse. Flogging it off to a wrecker at least gets it off your lawn and gets you a few bucks.

What most people have done is call around and see if you can find someone who will a drop in a replacement on the cheap to get it running again then either drive it till it dies again or flog it off to the next poor bastard who doesn't know better. Honestly, VW probably should have recalled these engines.

[xlot]

My 118tsi is closing up to 13yrs of ownership from brand new.

I've noticed since last year, it has started to burn oil. Waterpump blew itself early last year and that got fixed up. Later that year (2023), got my first low oil level warning since ownership. Got it topped up.

Interested in how this turned out for you

My daughter's manual '09 118 is in pieces in the garage currently.. had shudder at warm idle, and plugged in to find a fault code for timing. Turned out to have low compression on cylinder 3, and adding some oil in the cylinder improved it slightly so I didn't think it was a valve. Daughter wanted to learn more about engines, so we're working through it together (I downloaded the VW workshop manual software - have used ELSAWIN before when I owned a couple of V6 audi's)

That's the back story.. now the part which answers your question

When we were taking it apart, I found a lot of oil in the charge air cooler (air-air intercooler in non-vw speak), as well as the air hoses - enough that the whole front end left a puddle on the garage floor when I put it into service position (remove whole front of car).
There was also a lot of carbon on the back of the intake valves and the intake ports.
There was some carbon on the back and stems of the exhaust valves.
All four pistons had a lot of carbon on the oil control rings - two had gummed up and were hard to turn.

So in her car, I think the turbo oil seals are leaking, which is causing oil to go into the intake manifold, and in turn the intake ports. That's the first thing I would ask the workshop to check - is whether there's much oil in the air hoses after the turbo. I say first because that's the easiest to fix - what I don't know is how fast it was leaking, she didn't have to top up the oil in 5k kms so not crazy fast.

Its also clear oil was flowing into the intake ports - possibly from the turbo seals, but also likely from the valve seals, as not only was there carbon on the back of th eintake valves, but there was also a fair bit of buildup in the heads where the valve stem comes through the guide (enough I could scrape chunks off with a pick). I pulled the valve seals out and they're fairly stiff but no visible tears.

Replacing the valve seals means taking the cam housing off, so more work than the turbo.

[xlot]

So here's the result of disassembly..



Cylinder 2 - cracked ring land on the intake port side of the cylinder between the compression rings
Cylinder 3 - cracked ring land on the intake port side of the cylinder between the compression rings and also directly below that between oil scraper and compression ring 2
Cylinder 4 - cracked ring land on the intake port side of the cylinder between the compression rings

Bores are ok - visible scuffing on cylinder 2 but feels completely smooth with my nail. Can still see the hatching from new on the cylinder walls.

Interestingly, timing and oil pump chains are barely different length than the brand new ones I've got here - testament to regular oil changes with correct oil (I have a full service history for all 165k kms.. 13 oil changes), but that also means the timing was pretty much correct.

Hoping to be back together in 2 weeks as parts are almost all here, need to order the con rod bolts and cam shaft bolts as they're stretch bolts (have head bolts already), and for a total cost of <$1k to put new seals, head gasket, pistons.


More to come..

[The_Hawk]

love your work!

[xlot]

I hit a dead end last weekend.. not enough tools If there's no new tools needed, clearly I'm not trying hard enough.

I did measure ring gaps - the original rings were all still in spec.. altho' the top end for the top compression rings (spec is 0.2-0.4mm), second compression rings were all upper-mid-spec (spec is 0.4-0.6mm). So they've worn but, like the timing chains, must have had the benefit of good synthetic oil regularly. I can't stress enough, regular oil changes with quality oil are super important! (don't believe the "long service interval" crap, or worse, the lifetime fill gear oil).

I ordered the needed stretch bolts from veedub dealer - $213, but given the state of the dollar and the cost of shipping I can't do better from overseas, and by Tuesday next week I'll have everything we need to reassemble.. except..

I'm also pondering the turbo.. I can feel some play in the old (original) one, and the oil in the cold side pipes, I need to do something.. but I'm doing this on a budget. So the best two options I can see are:

a) Complete unit (manifold, turbo, waste gate) for $390
b) Turbo core (central part with bearings/seals/impellers) for $123

Anyone got any experience with these cheap not-even-oem ebay items? I'm not expecting OEM quality, but would like 40k kms. Turbo is fairly accessible - so I'm leaning towards the core as I want to keep this whole thing under $1k of parts (tools don't count, I get to use them on other cars ).

Talking of access.. for anyone attempting this, putting the car in "service position" takes an hour or so and is well worth doing for access! Of course, pics or it didn't happen



Having a couple of very long M12 bolts helps a lot.. can use them instead of the factory "tools" to slide it forward and undo the various bits.

[The_Hawk]

I'm loving watching this come together, love then enthusiasm!

[xlot]

I'm loving watching this come together, love then enthusiasm!

Thanks!

I'm using posting as motivation.. and because these cars are not really economical to pay someone to repair, so attempting a repair publicly will hopefully get others to try the same.

We only paid $8k a year and a half and 15k kms ago, and so paying someone to repair it is more than it would cost to replace with a similarly aged car..

The car's a hoot to drive, and my daughter loves driving manual, plus cosmetically its good (we did re-do the headliner - thats how we got it cheap.. private seller).

I'm not a pro mechanic - all I have on my side is an eye for detail, and being a computer nerd, so getting the factory workshop manual to work was easy.

After writing the earlier post, I clicked and bought the turbo core.. $119 with a $5 discount, and its on its way, and at that price, if it feels better than the old one, I'm happy to chance it.

[xlot]

Starting to put the bits together..

Taught daughter how to use a micrometer - she spent an hour measuring the old pistons, new pistons, and then the bores (and how to curse telescopic bore gauges for being hard to get reliable measurements out of).

But we now know which new pistons should go in which cylinder.. so about to show her how to measure ring end gaps and then gap them to size with a whetstone.

Shiny new pistons (these are a cheap ebay kit - came with more stuff than we need, but quality looks ok and they're all within tolerance per workshop manual (which says not more than 0.04mm beyond 74.460mm). Three are less than 0.01mm out, and the largest is 0.032mm over, so it goes in the biggest cylinder to maintain clearance.




In the meantime, heads going back together.. putting valve springs back in (I don't like this valve spring compressor.. but it was free from a mate). Oh yeah.. this is a 3 egg carton job.. for the valve springs/retainers/keepers, and for the hydrailuc lifters for the rocker arms.




One catch.. you can't just go and buy plastic straws to protect the valve seals when the valve goes through them... noone sells plastic straws anymore, doh!

But I made a valve condom using heatshrink so the seals slide past the grooves where the keepers go (valve condom is a term I learned from another forum of DIY mechanics )

[The_Hawk]

One catch.. you can't just go and buy plastic straws to protect the valve seals when the valve goes through them... noone sells plastic straws anymore, doh!

I think I have a pile of plastic straws, plates and cutlery in our party supply boxes. The forbidden things!


Tell you what, when my engine needs a rebuild I'll tow it to your place and include some straws

[xlot]

I hit a roadblock after the last post.. sorting out ring gaps.

I had a go at filing the gaps, and spent a lot of hours with a file, a fine whetstone, getting the gaps on the new piston rings to spec. Couldn't quite get the ends flat enough.. so I put it on hold, and after watching this youtube video..

https://youtu.be/A4tfqcfniJ0?si=R3dm21oA8xEoULtp&t=432

I noticed that his grinder looked like it was 3d-printed. A search turned up this:

Dremel 3000 Piston ring gringder for up to 5" bore I used it for Chevy SB by EasySol - Thingiverse

And so I dug out the printer and left it doing its thing for half a day.. to make this:







So thats where I got up to, right before heading off on holiday for 2 weeks with the family

Now that all the holiday dust settled, spent time last weekend with daughter grinding all the other rings, measuring gaps, and then re-dressing the hand-filed ones so they were actually square!