118TSI - General Discussion

[Jenstar]

Nothing out of the ordinary!! I'm a bit 'precious' about my car still... as it's my very first brand new car.
I don't drive it hard or have kids/pets to destroy it. It still looks and feels new inside.

Just seems whatever is made out of plastic is falling apart. Surely these cars are made to withstand the 'extreme' aussie temperatures?!?

I'm just so disappointed VW won't fix all of it..

[Rockman]

Golf 118TSI - Reliability or when is enough, enough?

VW Golf – What a bogie.
So VW wants to be the biggest car maker in the world. Well hopefully they will sort out their quality control and engineering issues before we are all driving around in loaner cars, while our VW’s are being repaired.
Back in early 2009, after years of my wife driving around in people movers, my wife started looking for her car. Something that would be zippy, comfortable to drive and reliable. And boy, did she look! We visited every car dealer in the area, looking at brochures on the internet and of course, test driving all those on the short list (and of course having to talk to car salesmen). The short list included vehicles from Lexus, Audi, BMW and a few others. But, in the end, it was the little Golf –Car of the Year, which got the tick.
Now when it was first delivered, there was some confusion regarding the front seats. We did not want the sports seats, and the salesman told us that it would come with the comfort seats, but on picking it up, it had the sports seats. But, she initially did not mind them, and as it was her car – I let it slip.
Now, initially the car performed well, it was zippy around town, easier than the old Kia Carnival to park, and certainly cheaper to run. But after a while, we noticed that the clutch appeared to be slipping. It would chug and shudder as it changed gears. So when it went in for its service, there was some work required to fix up the gearbox (the fancy DSG double clutch gearbox that the salesman told me was super reliable!). So they gave her a Jetta loaner, and off she went.
We got the car back and my wife was motoring again. Then we received a recall letter, something to do with reprogramming the engine management system to handle the Australian fuel. So another trip to the dealer (90 minutes away) and a day lost waiting for the service department to fix it.
Then there was the next service…. I couldn’t believe it when my wife rang me to say “they have to keep the car a little longer, as they had to replace the motor”! The car had only done 30,000km. But, what could we do? So we left my wife’s little Golf there again, took a Corolla loaner and headed home. After a few weeks, her car was fixed again! And we took it home.
Then one morning, in the middle of a busy road the car suddenly stopped. Nothing – just dead! So another call to roadside assistance and the car got dragged onto the flatbed truck and transported to the nearest dealer. It turned out to be the engine management unit. While they waited for parts, we got to drive another loaner. It was only after we sat down; we realized how different the situation could have been. If the car had broken down a few minutes later, my wife would have been on the New England Highway, mixing it up with B-Doubles and P-Plate drivers. The consequences of the car dying while in this traffic could have been tragic. We selected the Golf for its supposed reliability, but we were starting to really doubt this claim.
Anyway, after the little Golf had its holiday at the service centre, we handled over the Ford Focus loaner and took Golfy home.
Now, things seemed to be going ok, but after a while we started to have problems with the gearbox shuddering again and the air conditioner not working. The fan would just stop and no matter how much you pressed the buttons, it just would not work. You had to turn the ignition off and on before it would work – which is a real pain when you are travelling down the freeway.
So Golfy went in for a service, and this time when I arrived to collect her, I was told “the alternator is not charging and the battery has died”. Now, you would have thought that with all the cars VW sells in Australia, they would have a replacement alternator available, but no – it had to come from Germany or Singapore! And this would take 10 days. But this time, no loaner, we would have to drive Golfy while we waited for the replacement alternator to arrive. But because the alternator was not charging, we had to hook up the battery charger each night to make sure the car had sufficient power to run all the electronics.
And finally we received the call – your new alternator has arrived. But you will have to wait a week until we can do the work. Why did they not make a spot back when they ordered the alternator? So Louise takes the Golfy back to the dealer – 2 hours in the traffic. After filling in a day, walking around the shops, she returned to the service department to be told “the alternator did not fix the problem, so you can take a loaner home until we get it fixed”.
So Louise heads home in a new diesel Golf. And this is where it gets interesting. She was amazed at how much better this Golf performed, no hesitating when she takes off, smoother gear changes and all from a base model.
Then a few months later we start to notice problems with the gearbox. You drive along and when you plant your foot, nothing happens! The car drops a gear and the tacho increases, but nothing happens to the car – no acceleration. You stop and restart the car, and it’s ok. But the gear changes are much slower than normal. So I ring Kloster Newcastle and they say, “we cannot look at it for 10 days, so just keep driving it”. Unfortunately the idea of driving a car that intermediately stops accelerating is not very safe. And then on Australia day, it just stopped. So it was back on the flat tray truck and it returned to the service center at Klosters Newcastle.
So it’s another rental car and we received a call from the service center that the car should be ready on the 23rd of February. This is almost a month!
So did we get a lemon? Initially we thought the Golf was a great little car. But its reliability really leaves a lot to be desired. Would I recommend a Golf to somebody looking for a new car? NO
So where to from here? Will VW continue to fix the problems until the warranty expires, then try to hide behind the old excuse “it’s out of warranty”? Or do I return the car and get my money back, as the car is obviously not fit for purpose, and does not live up to advertised claims? Or is our car just a lemon and needs to be replaced?
I will let you all know how I got on, and remember to pass this info onto anybody you know that might be considering a new VW.

[kaanage]

So Louise heads home in a new diesel Golf. And this is where it gets interesting. She was amazed at how much better this Golf performed, no hesitating when she takes off, smoother gear changes and all from a base model.

Different DSG unit is used by the TDI (6 speed with wet clutches vs 7 speed with dry clutches). Most of the DSG issues seem to be related to the 7 speed dry clutch units.

This doesn't explain the other faults or excuse any of them.

[Rockman]

Ok, sorry about not listing the faults (a summary would have made it easier).
Yes, I realise the clutches are different. But should they be that much different? The 6 speed wet clutch was so much smoother and responsive. Wonders why you would sell a 7 speed that was so poor (or is it just mine?).

Faults

Gearbox shuddered - so they checked it and did some work (someone mentioned replacing some bits to my wife)
Replace engine
Car stopped - Engine management Controller failed & replaced
Alternator & battery replaced - but this did not fix the problem, so more work required ???
Gearbox failure

Now, the dealer has been pretty good - supplying loaner or rental cars while the work is done. But the car has spent more than 10% of its life sick! Surely its time for VW to admit this car is a lemon. The majority of its driving is gentle running around town, so I would hate to think what would happen if somebody was pushing it hard.

[Ryan_R]

The gearbox issues and engine ceasing faults have only been seen on the 118TSI so far. As much as I hate this and feel bad for you, I'd probably still stick with VW, and go with something more reliable (proven older tech) like the GTI or maybe a GTD.

VW have dropped the Twincharged engine for the Mk7 Golf, so I might need to look at getting extended warranty (in fact it would almost be stupid not to).

When it is working properly most of the time it's a fantastic car. Then again I was comparing the Golf to cheaper hatchbacks, whereas you were test driving Audi's and BMW's.

[Rockman]

Thanks Ryan_R,

Yes, we did test a lot of other cars (Toyota, Honda, BMW, Lexus, Skodia, Audi, etc) and the loaner/hire cars have been split into two categories:
Cheap and Chearfull
Ford Focus
Toyota Yaris
Nissan Tiida

Better Quality and Comfortable
VW TDI Golf
VW Jetta

And you can certainly feel the difference in the quality of the cars, but you would expect that, given the huge difference in price.
And when the car was working - it did go very well.

BUT - we paid the extra money and bought the VW to get safety, reliability and quality. My wife is now scared to drive the Golf, because it keeps breaking down (she lost another family member to road deaths on the 15/1/12 - that makes 4 so far!)

I realise that all cars are capable of breaking down, but given this cars history, its only a matter of when (and hopefully not at a critical time).

[Syd118TSI]

Some people have really had some horrrible runs with their 118s!

The only issue with ours has been the slight shudder going from 1st to 2nd. That has been fixed with a replacement clutch pack and it's now back to being smooth as silk changing through all the gears. It's done a little over 30,000 km including a couple of trips to the Gold Coast and back with fantastic fuel economy and a bloody comfortable drive with plenty of overtaking punch even at high speeds and without having to put it in S. The other half has absolutely fallen in love with the way it drives, and always comments about how much better to drive her car is that other cars she has subsequently driven.

It's unfortunate that reading these sort of experiences can't help but plant a seed of doubt in the back of my mind about the long term viability of this car. Such a shame as it's such a fantastic car, but it seems that there is a few real lemons out there.

I'll also be looking into the extended warranty as that little bit of peace of mind could be very worthwhile.

[Lucas_R]

Question for @ Rockman. Slightly off topic for everyone else - apologies.

How do you find Kloster VW? I bought my car from them last year, and although the sale process was good, their servicing skills and customer service etc so far is woefull.

My Golf has been back into Klosters 5 or 6 times now for niggly warranty issues (randomly going off alarm / squeaking sunroof etc). I drop the car off in immaculate condition - then when i pick it up, it has fingerfrints all over it / dirt on floor mats / oil or grease on the roof panel after fixing the squeaking sunroof. Unacceptable for a dealership to hand a car back in this state - especially when its obvious i am fastidious about the car.

The latest issue i have with them was the fact that i realised that my car had the incorrect headlight switch installed (its just black plastic when it should have the brushed chrome section on it). So when my car was in Klosters mid December (alarm issue again) i mentioned to them that the switch was incorrect and that i would like my $60k car to have the correct one.

So they said they would order one in under warranty for me. That was on 15th Dec 2011. Just the other day i thought to myself, geez this headlight switch is taking a long time.....so i rang the service dept and asked about it. The lady said it was in stock and that they had been trying to contact me.....like hell. Ive had no missed calls or SMS's etc from them. Phone is working fine. She told me i would have to book the car in and leave it there for a whole day to get the headlight switch changed. Excuse me...but a whole day for a 5 min job. Thats insane. Furthermore, i cant book in for 2 weeks because they are booked out.

So yesterday i knew that i would be driving past Klosters at some stage during the day (had to do some running around for work). So i removed the headlight switch and took it in to Kloster VW service desk. I asked them if i could swap it over for the new one that had been claimed under waranty. I figured, for such a basic item, it would save me the invonvenience of going without my car for a day, and also save them the hassle of having another car there when they are obviously busy. "Oh no, we need to have the car here to prove this switch is from your car" was the answer. Photos of the interior of my car were not good enough to convince him.

Unbelieveable.

[Ryan_R]

lol, why don't you offer to change it yourself in front of them? - maybe they could use a demonstration.

[Lucas_R]

Agreed Ryan. They are useless.

lol, why don't you offer to change it yourself in front of them? - maybe they could use a demonstration.

[Rawcpoppa]

Questions about this engine. It has a knock sensor which adjusts engine firing I believe when it senses knocking. A friend of mine used Ron 92 octane mixed with Ron 95 octane (even though the manual states 95 is required) for about a year. He now has a cracked piston.

Are the two related? He argues that the engine will sort out itself and run with less power to avoid knocking. I'm thinking that the engine isn't a magician and knock still occurs but just reduced leading to his cracked piston. Engine is basically one year old.

Thoughts?


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[Ryan_R]

If he's going to ignore the fuelling instructions then of course he can expect issues, and he won't be covered by warranty either. I don't know anything about the knock sensor though.


Personally I only fill up with 98 RON, and would only put in a small amount of 95 to get me to the next metro petrol station.

[Diesel_vert]

We selected the Golf for its supposed reliability, but we were starting to really doubt this claim.

One buys a Euro car for many, many reasons.
Reliability is not one of them, however.

But rest assured, you are not alone - many owners of Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Mini are certainly not immune from motoring troubles either - and these marques aren't exactly unknown for expensive diagnosis and repairs for nothing, especially when the warranty expires!

Questions about this engine. It has a knock sensor which adjusts engine firing I believe when it senses knocking. A friend of mine used Ron 92 octane mixed with Ron 95 octane (even though the manual states 95 is required) for about a year. He now has a cracked piston.

Are the two related? He argues that the engine will sort out itself and run with less power to avoid knocking. I'm thinking that the engine isn't a magician and knock still occurs but just reduced leading to his cracked piston. Engine is basically one year old.

Thoughts?

Only to a certain extent.
He would definitely have to keep the engine revs down and the engine load to a minimum. Otherwise, engine damage is a near certainty - as the cracked piston illustrates.
Has your friend worked out whether the cost savings of using a blend of 92 & 95 RON petrol was worth it?

[Rawcpoppa]

One buys a Euro car for many, many reasons.
Reliability is not one of them, however.

But rest assured, you are not alone - many owners of Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Mini are certainly not immune from motoring troubles either - and these marques aren't exactly unknown for expensive diagnosis and repairs for nothing, especially when the warranty expires!



Only to a certain extent.
He would definitely have to keep the engine revs down and the engine load to a minimum. Otherwise, engine damage is a near certainty - as the cracked piston illustrates.
Has your friend worked out whether the cost savings of using a blend of 92 & 95 RON petrol was worth it?

Well the car is under warranty and I am not sure if the dealer has a way of knowing he used super unless the knock sensor readings are stored in memory.

Anyways he definitely did not keep revs to a minimum and I am sure he put the engine under high or max loads daily to and from work.

Here is the bit about the knock sensor for the 1.4 tsi engine





I'm surprised by the number of sensors and fail safes this thing has. Then again I am no car buff.

To the poster before Diesel_vert our country only has Ron 95 for our highest spec fuel and theses engines are built to suit. They aren't built for Ron 92 though. I guess he figured once the car "felt" ok with Ron 92 then he was in the clear...guess not!



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[kaanage]

The problem with rely on the knock sensors to allow running on lower octane fuel (than what the engine was designed for) is that the ECU will keep trying to run at its normal timing (and boost for a super/turbo charged engine) and will detune itself as a RESPONSE to knocking - it doesn't just stay detuned as it will keep testing to see if it can run as it is supposed to. This means that the engine will knock at a reduced rate just as you have surmised and damage will only be slowed, not prevented.

What your friend needs is a remap that runs with retarded ignition and lowered boost.