ISO FIX question

[adamk]

has anyone ordered one of these lately, i am looking at a US recaro item as it has the top teather and should it need to go into grandmas car also mounts the way our Aust standard system does.

Will they ship direct or do i need a forwarder ?



RECARO: RECARO ProSPORT

[Stuwey]

Top tether or not, they're still not legal for use in Australia. Illegal to even import one.

(I'm a Recaro distributor)

[adamk]

I am aware of all that but am prepared to be on the wrong side of the rules if it means a safer car seat, how are people getting them into the country?

[Inego]

Just a clarification - the seat you have linked to doesn't appear to have an isofix mounting, is that correct? Of course, isofix seats are not legal under current Australian child seat regulations as they are explicitly excluded from the current relevant standard (which, to me, seems to be approaching criminal negligence, but Falcodores don't currently have isofix points so.....)

I don't know about the US, but there are quite a number of European companies that will ship their isofix seats to Australia. However, Europe has decided that a top tether is not needed - somewhat understandable with isofix, but not so good if you don't have it. I'm also aware of people in Austrlaia who have had their isofox seat replaced under insurance following an accident, but there is a risk a claim would be rejected as the seats are illegal.

[adamk]

The US system uses the bottom isofix mounting points but a top teather in the place of the foot that extends to the floor used in euro isofix. The US system is called latch and would attract less attention as it looks 90% similar to an aust standard fixing and can also be attached using a normal seatbelt much like the seats on the Aussie market if I ever need to put it in another car.

[Inego]

The US system uses the bottom isofix mounting points but a top teather in the place of the foot that extends to the floor used in euro isofix. The US system is called latch and would attract less attention as it looks 90% similar to an aust standard fixing and can also be attached using a normal seatbelt much like the seats on the Aussie market if I ever need to put it in another car.

No worries - and I get your way of thinking. My understanding is that latch, with its flexible bottom tethers doesn't perform quite as well as a the Euro isofix mounting in side impact tests.

Sorry about extending the conversation - I could give you some euro sites, but no US, sorry.

[adamk]

Yeah from what I can gather its better than our system as the mounting points are fixed but it's not rigid like a euro isofix.

I think the latch mountings can be tightened

[Inego]

The thing I'm not clear on with my research is how safe latch or isofix seats are if used with an ordinary seat belt, as few I've seen have seatbelt guides. Anyway, I'm likely to go with a Euro seat for my guy's next one - maybe waiting until the standard is corrected/improved, but maybe not. It's a stupid situation - my 1998 Golf IV was isofix equipped.

[The_Hawk]

Don't get me wrong, I don't understand why Australia hasn't moved to ISO FIX for many reasons, all discussed many times, but we are stuck with the Australian Rules ... which haven't been fundamentally updated since 1976 other than the up to 7 years thing now in NSW at least. But I digress.

The absolute worst case is not about if you getting caught day to day but if the worst were to happen and a child was left dead after an accident and you were held liable for not using the "correct" or "approved" child restraint.

It's a hard line between what you believe to be right and what the law says must be. Try writing to your local member of parliament asking for a review of our stone age regulations citing the reasons why the alternative standard is superior. Sure it's not going to happen overnight, but if no one does anything it's not likely to change any time soon.

[Inego]

My undertsanding is that isofix will be included in the next Aust standards, which are already under discussion. However, it still beggars my belief that isofix was specifically excluded from the current Aust standards (it is an option in the NZ version). The only logical reason for thsi exclusion was industry protection, as Falcodores do not have isofix (some have suggested Britax/other seat manufacturers may also have had a say.

I don't dispute that isofix/non-isofx seats may perform similarly when fitted correctly. It's just that isofix is many, many times easier to fit correctly.

[Stuwey]

From a person who is in the motor trade, and is up-to-date with these issues, I can tell you that our three-point system is superior, and actually the inverse of what you lot are saying.

Australia is NOT going to Isofix standards. Europe IS looking to copy ours as it is the only system which restrains the top of the child seat.

Many petitions have been signed, many aguments have been had, but the Government is NOT changing the standard.

[adamk]

Latch has three hard mounted points, the two ISo fix points and the top teather

[brad]

From a person who is in the motor trade, and is up-to-date with these issues, I can tell you that our three-point system is superior, and actually the inverse of what you lot are saying.

Australia is NOT going to Isofix standards. Europe IS looking to copy ours as it is the only system which restrains the top of the child seat.

Many petitions have been signed, many aguments have been had, but the Government is NOT changing the standard.

Can you link to research showing that the 3 point system is superior please? Also which EU countries intend to adopt "our" system?

What I see wrong with the 3 point system is there is too big a margin for error in the fitting of the seat. Sure, an anal-retentive safety freak with 20 years automotive experience (such as myself) goes to a lot of trouble to ensure the 3 point system is fitted correctly but I've seen a lot of child seats fitted badly & I'm sure the safety of these seats is reduced markedly.

And the Gov't won't change the ADR? Why on earth not? They have changed plenty of other ADRs due to technical innovation from overseas sources.

Apologies but I have to take your comments regarding the effectiveness of the two systems with a grain of salt. As a Recaro retailer, you have a vested interest in 3-point systems & can't legally sell an ISOfix.

Hawk: I'm in total agreement with your dilema. I could think of nothing worse than being found responsible for a childs death because of a "technical" breach of the law (even if they would have been just as dead with the 3 point).

[Stuwey]

Apologies but I have to take your comments regarding the effectiveness of the two systems with a grain of salt. As a Recaro retailer, you have a vested interest in 3-point systems & can't legally sell an ISOfix.

Mate, Recaro makes less than 1% of our income. I couldn't care less.

If you wanna use one, go nuts.

[brad]

All you have to do is back up your statements with published research. All the published research i've seen says that ISOfix is the safer system.

I assume Lotta Jakobsson, RACV et al haven't a clue?.

As i said before, it isn't the seat as such but the poor fitting by the users.

edit: i'll be blowed. ISOfix here by 2013