Possible DSG Mechatronic Issues

[maca]

i think the Pug and Audi guys at Lemans might beg to differ there

Lol I reckon, just check out the R8 V12 TDI.

But post edited nevertheless

[G-rig]

Why? The reasons for not changing mod corner are no longer valid with a DSG, there is no interruption to power and the car will not become unsettled. If the car can safely change gears mid corner and this gives it an advantage why not use it?

I'd rather wear out a set of brake pads than using the transmission for braking, much cheaper and unless you're a competitive racer it's probably not necessary.

Also if the corner is tight you can't really use the paddles and while you are playing with the gear lever its a lot like manual and i'd rather concentrate on the line and power out of the corner.

DSG would be good for down changes though, I tend not to rush manual down changes to look after the clutch/box.

Except it does. Both engines have different characteristics and this affects the DSG operation, I assume that's it's down to torque, speed of the engines etc.

I found the DSG a bit sluggish on the MK6 TSI I got as a loan car, but expect the GTI to be much better.

[Maverick]

I'd rather wear out a set of brake pads than using the transmission for braking, much cheaper and unless you're a competitive racer it's probably not necessary.

We're not talking about engine braking but being able to go into a corner in one gear and exit in another to maximise the speed through the corner.

Also if the corner is tight you can't really use the paddles and while you are playing with the gear lever its a lot like manual and i'd rather concentrate on the line and power out of the corner.

If the corner is tight you wouldn't be changing gear in the corner!

[G-rig]

We're not talking about engine braking but being able to go into a corner in one gear and exit in another to maximise the speed through the corner.
!

Downchanging at speed right before or during a corner sounds like engine braking to me unless you are talking about changing to a lower gear out of the corner.

[Swallowtail]

for goodness sake guys, take your point-scoring and nit-picking somewhere else and keep this on topic.

[Blue.:R32]

I'm with the school of thought that you get into the right gear before the corner. Concentrate on trail braking and steering. If you find you need to change down a gear mid corner, you've gone in too fast and in the wrong gear. (or the "corner" is actually two corners) On some corner, you may short shift mid corner and change up earlier when the corner opens up.

Just because the dsg can shift down smoothly, doesn't mean the driver should be lazy and fumble with gears in the mist of trail braking and steering. F1 is a good example, watch some in car footage and listen to the gear changes, they go flat chat until they hit the brakes and then shift down the gears quickly, all before they even turn the wheel.

[Maverick]

I'm with the school of thought that you get into the right gear before the corner. Concentrate on trail braking and steering. If you find you need to change down a gear mid corner, you've gone in too fast and in the wrong gear. (or the "corner" is actually two corners) On some corner, you may short shift mid corner and change up earlier when the corner opens up.

Just because the dsg can shift down smoothly, doesn't mean the driver should be lazy and fumble with gears in the mist of trail braking and steering. F1 is a good example, watch some in car footage and listen to the gear changes, they go flat chat until they hit the brakes and then shift down the gears quickly, all before they even turn the wheel.

Downchanging at speed right before or during a corner sounds like engine braking to me unless you are talking about changing to a lower gear out of the corner.

I'm talking about changing up a gear mid corner as you're picking up speed.

If I'm not mistaken the whole reason for not changing gear in a corner (and this only applies when you're driving on or close to the limit) was so you didn't unsettle the car and fly off into the bushes/trees/spectators and this can occur in a number of ways.

Changing down gears in a manual car and letting the clutch out too soon which results in both lack of drive for a short period and rapid weight transfer to the front wheels or changing up and interrupting power to the wheels.

Weight transfer through agressive steering, braking, acceleration or gear changes.

The DSG addresses all of these issues (except the steering and braking), gear changes up or down don't upset the balance of the car and the changes are so quick the engine speed changes only by a small amount.

Just because something wasn't recommended in the past doesn't mean that it can't be performed now when there is a solution to the problem.

[G-rig]

I got the impression you were talking about downshifting mid corner. Although you can with dsg, it's not the way you should drive but maybe ask a performance driving school.

Actually back when I did my driving licence you'd get a fail if you are fumbling around with gears or touching the clutch pedal after you've entered the corner. Not sure how they teach now but seem to be a lot of bad drivers around (in general).

[Blue.:R32]

You are correct, dsg helps ordinary drivers achieve smooth gear changes. Which means less chance of locking up a wheel, unsettling a car etc. However, a good manual driver can also do the same without unsettling the car by matching revs and car speed. It really has more to do with simplifying your driving than unsettling the car. You get in the right gear early, you have one less thing to worry about.

It depends on the type of driving and surface condition. If you ask a circuit racer and then a rally driver, they will tell you different things, because they have to deal with different driving conditions. Circuit driving tends to follow a recipe. Road rallies have more thinking on your feet, but still, if you know what a corner is coming up, I doubt many good driver would brake, turn, and then down shift to the gear before exit. You need to be on the power as soon as you hit the apex so when do you have time to down shift?

Then again what I'm talking about is optimal spirited driving where things happen real quick. Real world pedestrian driving? Do what ever you like.

[CatonaPC©]

DSG allows you to change in the corner because it changes so quickly. This is often mentioned in the reviews as they have the ability to change gears in the corners without unsettling the car.

After my drive yesterday in the new GTI, I'd have to say that the DSG would have had to have been changing down in mid-corner after my run down the straight. Braking hard into the corner, I was getting the impression, it was changing down. At the apex, you would floor it and that was followed by a kick-down. All very smooth and manageable. Pretty impressive, so yes Mav, I would have to agree with the reviews.

What was clear was that the old school of driving (brake-gear-corner) is irrelevant with the DSG/ESP technology.

[Blue.:R32]

so you were driving in D or S mode (most probably D by your description).... and the gear box automatically shift down when you start to accelerate away from the corner.

What was clear was that the old school of driving (brake-gear-corner) is irrelevant with the DSG/ESP technology.

irrelevant.. yes, fast... no

[CatonaPC©]

so you were driving in D or S mode

S mode. And no I do not advocate doing what I did yesterday on public roads.

[thezoneR32]

Just out of interest. A work colleague of mine has an 08 TDi golf with dsg. Does this have launch control like the R32 and gti?

[Maverick]

Just out of interest. A work colleague of mine has an 08 TDi golf with dsg. Does this have launch control like the R32 and gti?

No, the diesels don't support launch control.

[thezoneR32]

Cheers thanks for that.