Long term reliability of DSG

[deuterium]

Hi all, this is my second post.

I'm interested in buying a second hand Mk V Golf 2.0TDI with DSG. I have been looking for information on long term reliability of the DSG box, and the only information I can get is "don't keep it past warranty". That doesn't help me because it's a private sale, and it's already 3 years old. I also read that the mechatronic unit is often replaced under warranty. I haven't found any information from people using it for more than 100 000km. When I buy a car, I like to keep it for 10 years at least, so this is very important to me. I test drove a 2006 2.0TDI Comfortline with DSG, which has 95 000km and it was excellent. The box shifted smoothly at low speed, low throttle and high speed high throttle. So are there any people out there who know that it works well for a long time? I'd like it to last at least 300 000km. Any info would be great. I called VW Australia and the guy didn't even know what DSG was. All he said was "VW has excellent reliability", so he wasn't any help. I really like the car, but I don't want to be driving around waiting for it to break and cost me thousands.

Thanks

[85turbo]

i cant say 300,000km, but mine was purchased with over 100k on it, now at 126k, and zero dramas.
i have an aftermarket warranty that's good for 160k km or 3 years so im set either way.

Jason.

[VW Convert]

Hi all, this is my second post.

I also read that the mechatronic unit is often replaced under warranty.
Thanks

There have been a few cases of the mechatronics unit being replaced under warranty but as a ratio of the total number of transmissions in service, I believe it is an extremely small number. I personally think the DSG is fantastic but my car was written off at 60,000 KM so I have no personal experience beyond that mileage. I'm taking delivery of a new VW tomorrow, of course it too is fitted with DSG.

Cheers

George

[deuterium]

There have been a few cases of the mechatronics unit being replaced under warranty but as a ratio of the total number of transmissions in service, I believe it is an extremely small number. I personally think the DSG is fantastic but my car was written off at 60,000 KM so I have no personal experience beyond that mileage. I'm taking delivery of a new VW tomorrow, of course it too is fitted with DSG.

Cheers

George

Yes, that is what I suspected George, that all the reports were from people who had problems, yet the hundreds or thousands of others just don't mention it because it's been flawless. I also believe a lot of people replace cars regardless of their make, gearbox or reliability reputation before the warranty ends out of fear of having to pay for a repair, but there are obviously people buying these VWs and Audis that people sell when warranty runs out. How are these people doing with their purchase?

I love the DSG, but can't afford a brand new VW, and I don't want a 4 speed auto from a mazda or toyota or whatever else. I'm normally a manual person, but for DSG I'll make the exception. I guess I'm getting lazier with age, but I don't want a bad auto.

[Rileyowner]

I'm normally a manual person, but for DSG I'll make the exception. I guess I'm getting lazier with age, but I don't want a bad auto.

Why change to DSG? I've got a Jetta TDI 6sp manual and love it.

The 6 speed wet clutch DSG, the seven speed dry clutch DSG and the continued use of Tiptronic in 4WD versions reminds of the days when British Leyland used its customers as unpaid research and development staff

[jb747]

Why change to DSG? I've got a Jetta TDI 6sp manual and love it.

The 6 speed wet clutch DSG, the seven speed dry clutch DSG and the continued use of Tiptronic in 4WD versions reminds of the days when British Leyland used its customers as unpaid research and development staff

Yes, but where are the facts to back up this assertion.

I have a DSG equipped car, and I love it.

[triode12]

Yes, that is what I suspected George, that all the reports were from people who had problems, yet the hundreds or thousands of others just don't mention it because it's been flawless. I also believe a lot of people replace cars regardless of their make, gearbox or reliability reputation before the warranty ends out of fear of having to pay for a repair, but there are obviously people buying these VWs and Audis that people sell when warranty runs out. How are these people doing with their purchase?

I love the DSG, but can't afford a brand new VW, and I don't want a 4 speed auto from a mazda or toyota or whatever else. I'm normally a manual person, but for DSG I'll make the exception. I guess I'm getting lazier with age, but I don't want a bad auto.

How much is this Golf V TDI you are looking to buy selling for?

The reason I ask is that you may still be able to pick up a new one from the dealers for not much more (if there are any left) or a used one with warranty. If you are getting it financed, the difference in the repayments might be negligble.

But do get the DSG - it is worth the extra $$.

[gerhard]

There are no reports on any of the forums of the DSG box breaking in a mechanical sense. VW runs these transmissions in 24 hour race endurance events and none have failed.

There are some cases of Mechatronics unit being swapped, while there are many thousands which are trouble free in Australia, and millions worldwide are trouble free.

Plenty of DSG boxes run in chipped and big turbo modded cars are still trouble free at over 100,000ks.

Just make sure the DSG oil was changed at 60,000k in the car you are looking at and change it again at 120,000k.

[Rileyowner]

Yes, but where are the facts to back up this assertion.

I have a DSG equipped car, and I love it.

Try googling 'VW DSG recall', take a deep breath and read.


I can't understand why anyone who says he prefers a manual would even think about taking the risk - particularly when the stated goal is long-term ownership.

[gregozedobe]

I'm with Rileyowner. If you want to buy a secondhand car, run it for over 300,000 kms, and you prefer manual gearboxes, then why are you even considering cars with DSGs ?

Unless the DSG equipped car is proven to be:
- Cheaper to buy secondhand (possible),
- MORE reliable (unlikely) and
- Cheaper to maintain (not at all believable)
than a manual (and I'm sure a lot of people would love to see the proof ) then I don't see the rationale for buying a DSG in your circumstances.

Just on the straight forward premise that the more complex a mechanism is the less likely it is to be reliable, then logic indicates a manual is preferable. As all the DSG fans always insist: "a DSG is an automated manual, not an automatic", so it has 2 clutches (not one), plus a split drive system plus the (in)famous mechatronic unit controlling everything, so a lot more components to potentially go wrong compared with a manual. It also has regular servicing requirements, which can be expensive for the 6 speed wet clutch DSG.

And yes, I am an unashamed fan of manual gearboxes - just prefer the feel of driving a car where I decide when and how to change gears.

[kryten2001]

I'm with Rileyowner. If you want to buy a secondhand car, run it for over 300,000 kms, and you prefer manual gearboxes, then why are you even considering cars with DSGs ?

Unless the DSG equipped car is proven to be:
- Cheaper to buy secondhand (possible),
- MORE reliable (unlikely) and
- Cheaper to maintain (not at all believable)
than a manual (and I'm sure a lot of people would love to see the proof ) then I don't see the rationale for buying a DSG in your circumstances.

Just on the straight forward premise that the more complex a mechanism is the less likely it is to be reliable, then logic indicates a manual is preferable. As all the DSG fans always insist: "a DSG is an automated manual, not an automatic", so it has 2 clutches (not one), plus a split drive system plus the (in)famous mechatronic unit controlling everything, so a lot more components to potentially go wrong compared with a manual. It also has regular servicing requirements, which can be expensive for the 6 speed wet clutch DSG.

And yes, I am an unashamed fan of manual gearboxes - just prefer the feel of driving a car where I decide when and how to change gears.

Not having a go mate (so don't take this the wrong way), but have you ever owned a DSG and enjoyed its advantages?

That old "deciding what gear to be in" is an old school argument which is baseless. With a DSG you can decide what gear to be in, at any time, and you can change through the gears way faster than you can with a manual.

The only "problem" with DSG is you can't hold it at redline. It'll change up, and it won't let you be in a gear that'll labour the engine (like taking off in third etc).

I've come from a similar viewpoint. Most of my previous cars were all manuals and Autos were something I'd never consider. The DSG however really is quite different. The quick shiftpoints and lack of slip that traditional autos have make it wonderful to drive. The manual might be more engaging, but it's no quicker.

Anyway to answer the OP.. Yeah there's certainly more things to break in a DSG and 300,000 kays is certainly thinking a long way ahead... If you want ultimate reliability (or rather, cheap repairs if something goes bang) then the manual is better... For me though, I wouldn't be overly concerned.. Well, at least no more concerned than any other auto.......

[deuterium]

I can't understand why anyone who says he prefers a manual would even think about taking the risk - particularly when the stated goal is long-term ownership.

I usually prefer manuals to autos because most autos are not very good, particularly cars in my price range. Corolla 4 speed is bad, Mazda's is 4 speed too. I've driven a Honda Accord Euro and it was a good one, but they use twice as much fuel. Plus the Golf is a more desirable car for me, so regardless of whether the others had good autos or not, I'd still prefer the diesel Golf. If I was buying a 911 or M3 of course I'd want a manual, but the diesel Golf's power band is well suited to DSG. I'm going to test drive a manual too though.

And to answer the previous question, the car is advertised for ~ $20 000, but it runs out of rego soon, and I was going to offer $18 000. I googled that DSG recall, and it was for the 2009 and 2010 Jettas.

When I mentioned lasting 300 000km, it's because I'm comparing it to my current car which is a manual 1996 Subaru Liberty that I've had since it had 75 000km. This car now has 260 000km and has been basically faultless. It's now showing signs of needing its clutch replaced though. Even if the Golf lasted until 200 - 250 000km before upgrading again I'd be happy.

[Rileyowner]

I googled that DSG recall, and it was for the 2009 and 2010 Jettas.

That's because they are still under warranty and, in a highly litigious society attention is required NOW. If you read further, the faults have been evident for a long time and VW are doing everything they can to minimise the financial impact. And that mainly applies to Europe and Canada as well as well as the USA. Our miniscule market does not rate a mention.

When I mentioned lasting 300 000km, it's because I'm comparing it to my current car which is a manual 1996 Subaru Liberty that I've had since it had 75 000km. This car now has 260 000km and has been basically faultless. It's now showing signs of needing its clutch replaced though. Even if the Golf lasted until 200 - 250 000km before upgrading again I'd be happy.

Just to show how subjective and random it all is, I bought a brand new Liberty 4WD wagan (manual) in the early 90s after owning three other Subarus since 1980. It was an absolute dog and I could not wait to get rid of it at 50,000km. And I've never owned another Subaru since.

And that, I guess, is how we build our own legends

[kryten2001]

When I mentioned lasting 300 000km, it's because I'm comparing it to my current car which is a manual 1996 Subaru Liberty that I've had since it had 75 000km. This car now has 260 000km and has been basically faultless. It's now showing signs of needing its clutch replaced though. Even if the Golf lasted until 200 - 250 000km before upgrading again I'd be happy.

Well I can almost be sure that my DSG won't last 300,000 kays. Not with the power its got going through it and the treatment it gets.

Mind you, neither would a manual

[Jmac]

Here is a bit of input, i have just diagnosed a 2.0Tdi that had "Milky" coolant. Anyway its a long story but ill keep it trim to the DSG thread. After some diagnosis it was found that the Oil cooler was leaking into the transmission. Unfortunately this had been left to long after various visits to a dealer, thats where it gets complicated, so again ill trim to the thread in question. My feelings are like the Multitronics in Audis change the oil as per manual which is 60kss which to me is pretty long so i recommend 40kss, for the cost itll save you heaps. I have the special tools to do so and i will be doing my Audi every 40k without fail.
Anyway the DSG that had water contamination stuffed the clutches because coolant has a great habit of breaking down the glue on the clutches. Worse still the Mechatronics is inside the box and the coolant really stuffs this, this is where the cost lies. to conclude my opinion is the DSG is an awsome box, lets face it look at PDK in the Porsche application???? Lots of big names are looking at it. Dsg has been modified again in Audi and Vw but like i say service the thing at the right time at least and you should be good, and some decent tuners are now flashing the software on the box now too
Very clever Gearbox and i wouldnt hesitate having it. The down side if you have dramas like the coolant issue mentioned ( in which case should have been addressed heaps sooner) your box re con will cost around $8000 before a spanner touches it and if you buy new around $14k
Its a no brainer if you have these fancy transmissions like DSG and Multi, service them on time or a bit early
My 2C
Cheers
Jmac