pirelli lag

[dubbienewbie]

Hi all,
New to the forums.
Just ordered a silver pirelli 5 door. Picking it up next week.
Noticed when i took it for a test run a noticeable amount of lag on takeoff. Is this with all gti's or just the pirelli (didn't bother testing the normal gti - too many around and hate the plastic trims).
What can be done about the lag or do i just live with it?
Guy at dealer said to give the turbo a bit of a "prime" to spool it up before launch, but i'd hate to have to do this at every traffic light. does the flash from GIAC/APR help?
Thanks
Newbie

[kryten2001]

Hi all,
New to the forums.
Just ordered a silver pirelli 5 door. Picking it up next week.
Noticed when i took it for a test run a noticeable amount of lag on takeoff. Is this with all gti's or just the pirelli (didn't bother testing the normal gti - too many around and hate the plastic trims).
What can be done about the lag or do i just live with it?
Guy at dealer said to give the turbo a bit of a "prime" to spool it up before launch, but i'd hate to have to do this at every traffic light. does the flash from GIAC/APR help?
Thanks
Newbie

Lag is a trade off of big spool. I suffer from it too, you just need to learn how to drive around it.

It's a small price to pay for all that boost. The K03 in the standard GTI is (relatively) small, so it comes in real early. That's one of the things I really liked about the standard GTI, it's almost like it has no turbo at all.. Such a nice linear power band.

Like I said though, I wouldn't trade it off for all that extra power the K04 gives you.

Guy at dealer sounds like a kanoberr. 'prime' it?..... err...

[franjae]

Now I'm getting worried.....

I did the reverse of dubnewbie, drove the GTI, but ordered the Pirelli. They didn't have one to drive and I was led to believe it is the same car with nicer wheels, etc What a newb!! Hahaha.

I've driven the Mk6 118TSI and that had a bad hesitation on take off, but I think it is the DSG gearbox.

Well, hopefully it is not going to bother me, or else.......nothing, bolt on this K03? swap for an R32??

[kryten2001]

Now I'm getting worried.....

I did the reverse of dubnewbie, drove the GTI, but ordered the Pirelli. They didn't have one to drive and I was led to believe it is the same car with nicer wheels, etc What a newb!! Hahaha.

I've driven the Mk6 118TSI and that had a bad hesitation on take off, but I think it is the DSG gearbox.

Well, hopefully it is not going to bother me, or else.......nothing, bolt on this K03? swap for an R32??

It won't bother you... Just watch that wheelspin when the boost comes in.

[kaoticice]

what kind of lag are you refering to?? There are a difference between throttle lag and turbo lag.. If its throttle lag your experiencing then it is normal for all turbo cars.
So u shud be fine... or maybe test drive the gti and compare it.

[kryten2001]

what kind of lag are you refering to?? There are a difference between throttle lag and turbo lag.. If its throttle lag your experiencing then it is normal for all turbo cars.
So u shud be fine... or maybe test drive the gti and compare it.

The pirelli certainly has some/more pronounced turbo lag than a standard GTI. It's a function of the bigger turbo, and is a tradeoff in turbo design.

Smaller turbos spool faster, yet provide less boost. Big turbos take longer to spool, but when they come in they deliver much more grunt.

The K04 in the pirelli isn't bad, but it's certainly more raw than the almost indetectable K03. It comes in about 500rpms later but delivers a real surge of power.

Tuned K03's are a great option if you're looking for a sub 200kw car though. Almost the same power/torque as a standard untuned K04 but without the increased lag...

Of course if you want huge power, you need the bigger turbo....

But yeah this has all been said before.... mr Wiki - some good stuff here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_charger

Wouldn't this be nice...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-turbo

[dubbienewbie]

oh well, turbo lag it is.
So even a reflash doesn't help?

[kryten2001]

oh well, turbo lag it is.
So even a reflash doesn't help?

Ummm, well it's a tough question to answer, and I qualify this by stating it's only what I noticed on my car...

Lag, in my opinion, appears more pronounced AFTER flashing, but ONLY because the amount of boost is SO much more significant after flashing... I used the word APPEARS as I'm sure it's not the actual case of what the turbo is doing.

In other words, the level of pre-spool I'm sure is pretty much the same on a preflashed car, it just feels so much more pronounced because when the power comes in, it comes in all that much stronger... On a tuned K04 it's like, nothing, nothing, nothing, JEEEEESUUSSSSSSS

Guy_H is probably the man to ask, he's the guru on this stuff as far as what's in the tunes in regards to turbo programming..

Not much can work around physics though... Bigger turbo, slower but more pronounced spooling..

It's really not an issue, so I wouldn't worry. The extra herbs is well worth it. Your issues won't be in turbo lag, but how to put that power to the ground.

[AstraOiler]

The other (quite expensive) upgrade for smaller turbo if looking for more power, but not the lag, would be a VNT turbo, allows for quicker spool up at low speeds (acting like a smaller turbo), but then the vanes adjust angle at higher speeds to give you the full force of the turbo.
Don't know what sort of aftermarket management you'd need to run it though, it's becoming more and more common on diesels...but they've used it on the 997 porker.

[VW Central]

Congrats on the car!!

I have a Pirelli too. I must say, I never test drove the Pirelli before I bought it. I had only test driven the GTI. I was very impressed with the GTI and thought the Pirelli could only be better. With all the options as you have said.

However, initially after getting the car I was quite dissapointed with the initial launch in the pirelli, there was a big lag and only really seemed worth the money once I was at 50km/h.

After all, if you were to buy a GTI and then try and upgrade it to the k04, it would be far more expensive and you would still have a GTI at the end of the day.

That's just my $0.02.

interested to hear your thoughts on this.

[Greg Roles]

Problem is gassers run higher exhaust temps than oilers where VNT's are common, and the variable vanes are less likely to survive at these bigger temps. Undoubtably the big dollar cars can make the vanes from Kryptonite etc, but for the mere mortals...

You can always put a shot of NOS off boost. Works wonders on big lag cars I'm told.

I'd GUESS the pirelli is "more like" the GT TDI, in that it's not as user friendly, but delivers a very noticable wack after a noticable lag and makes it very on/off. You either love it or hate it. It sure sold me! You just have to learn to drive around it. In saying that I reckon you can't beat the GTI for a perfect driving setup, with perfect low to mid power stock, plenty of grunt where 95% of your driving is.

I'd get a Pirelli test drive PRONTO.

[Creniac]

I've driven the Mk6 118TSI and that had a bad hesitation on take off, but I think it

Hey Franjae,

What Lag are you talking about on the 118 TSI????? I've got an 09 jetta with the same running gear and if you bury your right foot at the lights there's no hesitation at all!!....... it's gone!! had a GTI owner in it from NZ in the weekend and he was surprised..... infact quite surprised!!....... yes if you have a pussy right foot at take off, it does act like a nana off the line but that's because your right foot told it too (fly by wire brother!!). I don't know about the rest of the 118 TSI owners but that's just how it is with mine. Here's a simple equation: nana right foot = hesitation v's bury that right foot = go hard at 1750rpm and on!!!

[franjae]

If you drive it as you would in any car, there is definitely a slight hesitation, like it wasn't in gear. May be that particular car but I've read others saying the same thing. Maybe you do need to boot it, but not everyone will drive it that way.

I was amazed at the power of this little engine, quiet and smooth. Good stuff.

[Creniac]

Yes it can be hesitant at times but like I said it depends completely on the signal you give it through the foot action....... most of the time (especially in sydney traffic) we are all in a stop start situation meaning slow take offs, all DSG's regardless of what engine it's bolted to senses that....... other that, it's all good dude!!

[G-rig]

The gti was probably about right from the factory.

Can't see why people are complaining if they got more power albeit some lag. Otherwise don't mod it the lag will just get worse.

The R32 has no lag