Considering doing an oil change?

[Guest212]

The oil filter will catch some of the particles that are big enough to cause long-term damage.
The full flow oil filter in your engine will catch particles somewhere from 20 to 30 microns when it is new and smaller ones when it gets closer to the end of its life. In VW’s case it is15 000 km. But while the filter is partially blocked and catching these smaller particles the bypass valve in the lube system will start opening and it will let unfiltered oil circulate through the oil galleries. When the oil filter is filled up with dirt particles and cannot filter any more, the oil bypass valve will be open 100% of the time and the engine will have no filtration at all. Even with new oil and a new oil filter, the oil is bypassing the filter element for a short time during warming up due to the increased viscosity of the cold oil and that time is longer when the filter is filling up with the dirt particles, so when the engine oil is dirty it spends more time bypassing the oil filter than clean engine oil.

If you would closely inspect the crankshaft and conrod bearings you would see the scratch marks on the crankshaft journals – what do you think caused them? Think about it: the scratch marks on the forged steel material that is rotating in bearings made from much softer materials, were made by the carbon particles which were bigger than the thickness of the lubricating film isolating the two rotating parts from each other.

Bottom line is, if you change the oil more frequently or improve the oil filtration for example by installing bypass oil filter, the engine will last longer.

Not denying what you're saying. MOre frequent services and appropriate treatment = longer life. Appropriate servicing for the vehicle use is hugely important.

But do you realise just how clogged up the oil filter would have to be to actually block and for oil to flow through the bypass system? If your brand new engine suffers a blocked oil filter before the 15,000km service you are basically looking at a complete failure/breakdown somewhere within the motor itself. Our oil is water thin these days for some of the reasons you mention - the difference between oil now and oil years ago is that it is refined and blended with additives which allow to provide excellent levels of protection, hot and cold.


In saying that, VW/Audi do have a sludge issue with their engines, as so most european brands these days. But they're clever about it. Its not their fault, its the owner's faults for not servicing it as per the book. 15,000km in Oz is for "ideal" conditions. Go outside of them and you have to drop the expensive stuff early!

[stewarthou]

The question was WHY VW recommends to change oil at 15,000km??
Do they want their cars to have shorter life?

[Russ59]

The question was WHY VW recommends to change oil at 15,000km??
Do they want their cars to have shorter life?

It'll keep the service departments going at least


Russ

[Transporter]

Not denying what you're saying. MOre frequent services and appropriate treatment = longer life. Appropriate servicing for the vehicle use is hugely important.

But do you realise just how clogged up the oil filter would have to be to actually block and for oil to flow through the bypass system? If your brand new engine suffers a blocked oil filter before the 15,000km service you are basically looking at a complete failure/breakdown somewhere within the motor itself. Our oil is water thin these days for some of the reasons you mention - the difference between oil now and oil years ago is that it is refined and blended with additives which allow to provide excellent levels of protection, hot and cold.


In saying that, VW/Audi do have a sludge issue with their engines, as so most european brands these days. But they're clever about it. Its not their fault, its the owner's faults for not servicing it as per the book. 15,000km in Oz is for "ideal" conditions. Go outside of them and you have to drop the expensive stuff early!

So, how good is the water thin oil and 15,000km oil changes, if it cause the sludge build up in the engine?
The low viscosity oils are used in European cars for more than 10 years and for more than 10 years there is sludge build up in many engines.
The 15,000km and longer service interval keeps many people happy: Environment protection agencies, governments, car owners; until there is a problem. At the end of the day the car which didn't have as often as needed oil changes doesn't last as long and more people have to buy a new cars and it keeps the economy going.

I'm not sure if there is "driving under severe driving condition" mentioned in the VW owner's manual but in many other car manufacturers owner's manuals it is and basically as you said, if you live in the city you fell onto that category (driving under sever condition), so it is always owner's fault if there is the sludge issue.

To answer your question, if I know how blocked the oil filter has to be to open the bypass valve?
Yes, I know: when the engine is cold - not much, especially if its there always 15,000km than it will be blocked sooner with every prolonged oil change.
I don't want talk about the viscosity of the oil below 0 deg. its not water thin any more, plus the older the oil gets its the viscosity is changing.

P.S. I'm not talking about just a brand new engine. You may say it is off topic, but your first oil change will affect the longetivity of your engnine, so it is related more than you think.

[gti]

I did my 1st oil change at just over 7,500 or so and have noticed the car has more punch! Do it.

[WEDEL.1]

I have just spoken with the Service Foreman of Solitaire on the 1.9 TDI oil change.

1. He stated that VW say there is no run in oil in the motors.

2. Change the oil in accordance with VW specifications (15K or 12 mths).

3. No harm will befall my 1.9 TDI by NOT changing the oil now at 6.5K.

4. Be vigorous in driving style by working the engine.

5. My trip to Melb DOVW where I was unable to vary the speed much will have no term adverse effect.

6. VW motors use oil and check the TDI frequently as it can use up 1 litre per thousand. In Europa the motors are mostly run in at higher speeds due to the higher speed limits on the autobahns.

So, I will take the advise and NOT do anything untill Septmber when the first service is scheduded, as I was told by the Service Adviser months ago, even though it goes against what I have done with my previous petrol cars.

Maris

[kryten2001]

So, I will take the advise and NOT do anything untill Septmber when the first service is scheduded, as I was told by the Service Adviser months ago, even though it goes against what I have done with my previous petrol cars.

Maris

Well mate I'm happier those metal filings are out of my sump!

It's more likely the service guy didn't want to go against VWs recommendation, or simply isn't aware of what's showing up in the sumps.

Just my opinion.. I'm convinced I'll never NOT do one in a new car ever again.

[NickZ]

The question was WHY VW recommends to change oil at 15,000km??
Do they want their cars to have shorter life?

IMO, VW are not too fussed how well their engines are running after 10 years or 150000km. They are more focused on reducing servicing costs to those that keep their car a short time, not necessarily by reducing prices but by reducing frequency. The customers VW care most about are those that change cars after 3 years, as opposed to people who buy a new car once every 10-15 years.

This is why 15000km is used, and I think is suitable if keeping your car for its warranty period. However, for those that want to keep it longer I still feel it should be changed more often. This is my opinion of course and to be honest there are a lot of variables at play when it comes to maintaining cars and oils etc.

For me, I consider that I drive a turbo car constantly around the city and my driving style is pretty hard. As a result, and the fact I want to keep the car for more than 3 years, I choose to change the oil at 7500km.

[Russ59]

Going off most of the comments made on this topic, I would say it would appear that if you intend to keep your car long term ( that's my plan ) then it will probably pay you to have the oil and filter changed at 7,500 K intervals, if not then it will be up to the next person buying the vehicle to check the service history and take that into consideration for themselves. That's really only one part of the equation anyway, how the car has been driven and otherwise maintained mechanically, will also play a big part in how good the vehicle actually is when it goes on the market.


Russ

[Transporter]

I have just spoken with the Service Foreman of Solitaire on the 1.9 TDI oil change.

1. He stated that VW say there is no run in oil in the motors.

2. Change the oil in accordance with VW specifications (15K or 12 mths).

3. No harm will befall my 1.9 TDI by NOT changing the oil now at 6.5K.

4. Be vigorous in driving style by working the engine.

5. My trip to Melb DOVW where I was unable to vary the speed much will have no term adverse effect.

6. VW motors use oil and check the TDI frequently as it can use up 1 litre per thousand. In Europa the motors are mostly run in at higher speeds due to the higher speed limits on the autobahns.

So, I will take the advise and NOT do anything untill Septmber when the first service is scheduded, as I was told by the Service Adviser months ago, even though it goes against what I have done with my previous petrol cars.

Maris

There is a plenty of the posts over the Internet about "Early camshaft failure 1.9 TDI"
to justify more frequent oil changes.
It all depends how long do you want to keep your car.

[WEDEL.1]

Well mate I'm happier those metal filings are out of my sump!

It's more likely the service guy didn't want to go against VWs recommendation, or simply isn't aware of what's showing up in the sumps.

Just my opinion.. I'm convinced I'll never NOT do one in a new car ever again.

Yes, I know. I did also mention to him the metal bits that may be around, and he agreed that the filter will catch them.

I can't say that I'm fully happy, but I'll stick with what the Dealer says. As I have said, I changed the T4 Transporter oil + filter many times before the 15K service, and the T4 was sounding like new @ 147K when I sold it last year.

BTW, he also stated that the commercial service interval is 25K.

Maris

[gerhard]

I bought my Jackaroo new and observed the 10,000k oil changes the manufacturer specified.

Only twice did I change it earlier - once when I filled it with Mobil 1, and the other time when I used the magic Magnatec - both made my engine rattle badly, so I replaced with Penrite HPR10 which I've used ever since.

The car has now done 156,000 or so, has towed camper trailer to Cape York & back, been all over the Vic High country, and commuted daily the rest of the time, until the GTI was purchased.

The engine is as sweet as a nut, does not use any oil, does not make any noises, and all this on the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval.

With the GTI, I have changed the oil at 6 months (6,500ks, Penrite HPR5) and will change again at 12mths/15,000ks and will go to Penrite Enviro + full synthetic VW approved. After that it will be 12 months/30,000k till the next one.

[Guest212]

So, how good is the water thin oil and 15,000km oil changes, if it cause the sludge build up in the engine?
The low viscosity oils are used in European cars for more than 10 years and for more than 10 years there is sludge build up in many engines.
The 15,000km and longer service interval keeps many people happy: Environment protection agencies, governments, car owners; until there is a problem. At the end of the day the car which didn't have as often as needed oil changes doesn't last as long and more people have to buy a new cars and it keeps the economy going.

I'm not sure if there is "driving under severe driving condition" mentioned in the VW owner's manual but in many other car manufacturers owner's manuals it is and basically as you said, if you live in the city you fell onto that category (driving under sever condition), so it is always owner's fault if there is the sludge issue.

To answer your question, if I know how blocked the oil filter has to be to open the bypass valve?
Yes, I know: when the engine is cold - not much, especially if its there always 15,000km than it will be blocked sooner with every prolonged oil change.
I don't want talk about the viscosity of the oil below 0 deg. its not water thin any more, plus the older the oil gets its the viscosity is changing.

P.S. I'm not talking about just a brand new engine. You may say it is off topic, but your first oil change will affect the longetivity of your engnine, so it is related more than you think.

So to conclude you're lacking any technical information and therefore making conclusions from what you believe.


I'm not trying to start an arugement but if you think you know better than the VW engineers you better give them a call ASAP and hand them your resume.

15,000km service intervals are for the driving conditions listed in the manual to be considered "normal" intervals. If you vary outside of the normal vehicle operation and do not adjust your service schedual to suit you may experience the early failure you mention. Otherwise your vehicle will last as long as VW designed it to (which is probably somewhere between 200k to 300k km like most other manufacturers these days).

THey wouldn't make these recommendations if they didn't know what they were doing!


(I agree though I'd be changing the oil well before 15,000km if i were keeping one for the long term...)

[kryten2001]

Yes, I know. I did also mention to him the metal bits that may be around, and he agreed that the filter will catch them.

I can't say that I'm fully happy, but I'll stick with what the Dealer says. As I have said, I changed the T4 Transporter oil + filter many times before the 15K service, and the T4 was sounding like new @ 147K when I sold it last year.

BTW, he also stated that the commercial service interval is 25K.

Maris

Yeah I guess I'm more anal than most, that's all. Just the idea of having bad sludgy oil filled with metal filings finding it's way around my engine scares the hell out of me.

And it was a great way to spend a Sunday arvo too.

[Transporter]

So to conclude you're lacking any technical information and therefore making conclusions from what you believe.


I'm not trying to start an arugement but if you think you know better than the VW engineers you better give them a call ASAP and hand them your resume.

15,000km service intervals are for the driving conditions listed in the manual to be considered "normal" intervals. If you vary outside of the normal vehicle operation and do not adjust your service schedual to suit you may experience the early failure you mention. Otherwise your vehicle will last as long as VW designed it to (which is probably somewhere between 200k to 300k km like most other manufacturers these days).

THey wouldn't make these recommendations if they didn't know what they were doing!


(I agree though I'd be changing the oil well before 15,000km if i were keeping one for the long term...)

Mate, if I would be 21 like you I would give my resume to VW.