TDI Service Cost

[jdd]

I’ve noticed some dealers now itemising various aspects of what used to be considered part of a service and charging extra for them.
Our TDi was just in for its 15K service and we were offered a tyre rotation for $33.
We were also offered a wheel alignment and balance for additional costs.
Given that wheel alignments and tyre balancing are probably not part of a routine service but I was under the assumption that tyre rotations were. With various cars I’ve owned in the past this was included as part of every service.
I also was charged for an oil flush, but I think this is standard practise these days with many dealers irrespective of brand. Not sure if it’s really warranted if you’re having the car regularly serviced.
Our local tip accepts waste oil for recycling free of charge but I guess workshops have to pay somebody to come and collect it, which is where the charge comes in.
In the past we’ve probably paid for this anyway as part of the labour rate but now they’re itemising it separately.
Our 15K service was $380 without the tyre rotation (I did that myself).
It does seem quite a bit for a minor service but in the scheme of things, it really hasn’t increased percentage-wise as rapidly as many other things over the years.
Your best value for money with car servicing is always going to be with a small reputable workshop as they have far lower over-heads than a dealer.
Unfortunately, with the complexity of many modern cars these days, small workshops with the skill & tools to work on new cars are slowly disappearing.

[Maverick]

These items plus the oil change do not justify IMO a bill of $400.

Talk to the dealer then, there is no point in us speculating when you can go directly to the source and ask them.

Personally I don't see the issue in splitting hairs over a few dollars for the cars service when it's once a year if you get good service. There are a lot more items looked at and checked then you realise, VW have a lot of items to be checked that are not listed in the handbook and these change as issues become apparent.

[mikinoz]

I think that this here is important information to all regarding servicing...

Page 3 of this from the ACCC

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=815683&nodeId=540dbbcaea92b8967a247e734f742406&fn=ACCC%20consumer%20express—April%202005%20.pdf

[gregozedobe]

I would stop at calling them experts though. If you ask any technical questions to the service manager/foreman they very quickly reach the limit of their knowledge.

I am a member of 8 or 10 forums like this one around the globe & the collective knowledge/experiences of their members leaves your local dealer for dead. The manufactures cultivate an impression that their people are specially trained & use special tools. The reality is while some have had additional training, after a while a lot is forgotten.

After a while some of these good mechanics leave & start their own business. Sometimes the difficult/problem cars are subcontracted out to these previous employees, because the dealer doesn't have the expertise.

This is happening more and more. I'm also on several forums (mainly Oz and UK). Increasingly I'm reading of owners dissatisfied with the level of expertise and degree of diagnostic skills their main dealers technical staff show.

A very common lament is : "Computer says no". If it is intermittent or there isn't a fault code recorded they sometimes either refuse to acknowledge there is a problem with the vehicle at all ("they all do that"), or (more likely) they simply lack the knowledge and skills to correctly diagnose what is the cause (and therefore what cure is appropriate).

At other times the warranty procedures laid down by the manufacturer simply don't work properly (I had an oil cooler fail on my Transporter, it ended up going to the dealer SIX times before it was finally fixed, and I don't blame the dealer).

I guess if you find someone you are happy with, keep going back to them.

[Greg Roles]

Good work Mik, kind of sums up the topic nicely with the facts, don't you think?

For the record my prior FPV from Metro Ford here in Brisbane came with a dealer promise that only "FPV certified head technicians" would work on the car. It was a requirement, at that time, from FPV too. Special training and all that.

Turns out the first year apprentice who did my 5k free checkup put an XR8 hood liner under the bonnet, whereas the GT comes without one due to clearance issues. He tried to do the right thing, but it must have been his first GT. Well it melted over the engine and made an awful mess, lucky I stopped when the smoke started, or it probably would have caught fire. Even better my car was returned with a 20km trip showing on the trip meter at an average fuel use of 28L/100k. I reset it prior, just to check. I only managed that sort of fuel use on my FPV track day! Needless to say it got fixed, and I never returned.

My brother is a mechanic, and for the record, he warned me!

Car comes in, whoever is available gets it. Period.

[mikinoz]

Good work Mik, kind of sums up the topic nicely with the facts, don't you think?

I want clarification on 'qualified person' to be sure, as I am 100% going to go to an off-duty major dealer employee at his house if that qualification means 'ticketed'...

[Oneofthegreats]

Well, if some of you think that it's so easy to diagnose intermittant fault's/complaint's on new car's with the lastest technology then I tell you what....

You can have my job!

Cause obviously it's easy! The computer must tell you everything!


Also, at my last workshop which was a only a 5 man team, that's where the personal touch comes into it & quite often they'd come in & talk to you while you work on there car

Which end's up being that you'd get customer's who ask that only this person work's on there car. No one else cause they trust you!


I think from now on I'll stay out of new model & new model problem thread's, cause obviously no one believes someone who actually work's on the product for a living & would rather use there extensive knowledge of here say & what other stuff they've read off other forum's from people who probably don't even know where to check there oil level!

Good luck to you all & thankyou.

I'll go back to building engine's that make real power & pollution

[Greg Roles]

Mate, you're taking this very personally, and perhaps I failed to see it, but nowhere was this an attack on mechanics per say, but on excessive charges by dealers, and that's nothing new. Gregoz goes a bit close, ( he's just bitter ), but you have to have a chat with Iampivot for example, with no fault codes but an annoying fault that the BIG dealer here in town isn't interested in fixing, and just keep telling him, "well there's no fault codes"....again the problem is the DEALER, and I've put him onto the smaller specialised blokes, like Jmac on here. Sounds like you'd go the extra mile too.

As for mechanics, my brother is one, and he's the FIRST one to bag big dealer service centres. You'll probably get jaded in time too sadly!

[Oneofthegreats]

This isn't directed at you cogdog, just airing out my side of the story in regard's to fault's.

Maybe so, but put yourself in the techician's shoes & have a think about what you yourself would do when...

A car comes in with an intermittant fault/complaint. No fault codes, you spent countless hour's doing all the background check's & going on what ever lead's you can to try & fix a problem that you can't fault & haven't faulted at every visit. Even when you've driven the car with the owner & asked them to point it out or prove it & give you some insight into the fault/complaint & still no fault

What do you do?

Also add into if you spend say 4+hour's & still can't find something, how do you bill either VW Aust. (warranty complaint) or the customer when you can't fix something if it hasn't faulted or isn't there in the first place. So the dealer is now out of pocket too!

This doesn't just happen with VW either & just hasn't happened with me. This would happen with every manufacturer.

It's not as easy as it's sound's now is it?

But then from what everyone read's & say's, the computer tell's you everything doesn't it!

So if it was so simple & easy, maybe you all should fix your own car's.

I don't know how there could be fault's, cause these car's are so bloody great, they never break down do they?

Arhh!

That's it sorry. I hate having to explain myself to people that don't believe you anyway.


Like I said, I'll be staying out the new model thread's from now on & keep my info & resources for my job where it's needed & spend more time reading, gaining more knowledge & using my experience for thing's I enjoy!

[gregozedobe]

Like I said, I'll be staying out the new model thread's from now on & keep my info & resources for my job where it's needed & spend more time reading, gaining more knowledge & using my experience for thing's I enjoy!

Golfworx,

I'm sorry you saw my comments as a criticism of you personally, it most definitely wasn't. Unfortunately with these web based communications a lot of the personal modifiers (voice tones, facial expressions, body language etc) are missing, so what is intended one way can be easily interpreted a totally different way to what the writer intended.

In fact I wasn't aiming at any mechanic in particular, but more as a lament that some mechanics don't seem to care about their job and tend to take the easy option and not do any thinking. I was referring to the technician who only looks for fault codes without really engaging their brain, hence the comment by many "Computer says no". I'm sure you know of some techs with that attitude.

I agree that intermittent faults can be very frustrating, which is why I try very hard to isolate the factors involved so that I can replicate the fault condition reliably. I know that makes diagnosis (and therefore the fix) much easier, and lets face it, everyone wants our cars to be functioning correctly, with faults fixed quickly and with mimimum expenditure.

I can tell by your posts that you DO care, and that you do try to solve even the frustrating faults.

As I mentioned in my post, I don't think VWA have their warranty process quite right. Too often it seems to be either the dealer and/or the customer seems to suffer if the problem isn't clearcut and easily fixed within the time (and $$$) allowed by VWA.

I'm sure my dealer was following the "VW approved procedures" to fix my Transporter after the oil cooler leaked, but those procedures didn't get all the oil out of the coolant the first (or second, or 3rd) time I took it to the dealer. Apparently VWA wouldn't pay the dealer for the 2nd through to 4th visits, as it "should" have been fixed the first time ! As a customer I wasn't going to pay to have my van fixed properly under warranty, but if VWA won't pay then that leaves the dealer out of pocket (yet another dealer overhead). Clearly the fault lay with the ineffective "VW approved procedures" that the dealer is required to follow, so VWA should be paying.

I can see that warranty work is frequently going to be a source of friction beteween customers and the dealer's technical staff. Add in the frustration of a hard to diagnose intermittent fault with unhelpful info being supplied by a "prickly" customer and it is easy to see where things can go wrong quite quickly.

So, to sum up :

I wasn't having a go at you personally, only lazy mechanics. I value your input, and would be sorry to lose your contributions. Please reconsider your decision to stay away.

[gerhard]

I'm gonna throw in my 2c worth here, - disclaimer - the term "you" is used for structure and is not aimed at any individual - so if you can't comprehend that point, do not read further. I repeat, this post is my opinion and not an attack on the OP, got it?

Bagging dealerships is pretty easy, not using them if you are so aggrieved is also pretty easy.

You can easily find out how much the service will be beforehand, so if you don't like a $400-$500 bill don't go to the dealer.

Then you won't have to waste everyone's time arguing an unwinnable and totally pointless argument on a forum where it's been done to death hundreds of times before. Why indeed do they charge for "workshop consumables"?

For your info, the non-dealer independant mechanic to whom you are going to entrust your car was once one of those "useless apprentices at the dealership". The dealership may well charge you $100 or more per hour labour, and the job may well be done by said apprentice. But you completely forget that the apprentice is given paid leave, etc to go to school, and although I'm not up on this issue, I presume apprentices still cost employers money to train. Plus workboots, sick leave, workcover, etc, etc.

Like in any job or profession, you have to sift through a fair few below average contenders before you find the good ones that will leave soon enough after their training.

So if you have a problem with dealer service costs, don't go there. Do not buy a car that needs to be serviced at a dealer. Then threads like this wouldn't exist.

With such a cheapskate mentality I presume you would seek out a cheap physician to treat your health problem, since the expensive guy will cost you more money. He might even charge for syringe disposal.

[jets]

Talk to the dealer then, there is no point in us speculating when you can go directly to the source and ask them.
.

If you read my original post, I did not pay for this service. I can hardly query the cost of their services when I didn't pay for them. It is for this reason that I started this thread to hear from members within the industry for their side of business. Some have answered these questions & others have supported my views.

[TDIESEL]

If you read my original post, I did not pay for this service. I can hardly query the cost of their services when I didn't pay for them. It is for this reason that I started this thread to hear from members within the industry for their side of business. Some have answered these questions & others have supported my views.

Lol..as you can see Jets, this topic gets some people's emotions running high. From what i've seen there are 2 camps and no in betweens. You have the guys who are either **** scared of using anyone except a genuine dealer or so devoted that they are prepared to pay higher costs for their "peace of mind" and no matter what you say, they will defend their decision and possibly make you feel inferior for not being the same. Then there are the others..the ones who don't really fall for the "must be serviced by dealer" gimmick and are prepared to do a bit of research and calling around to save a few dollars. Most who are in this camp don't care what others think as they now have more money in their pocket to spend on something else.

It really doesn't matter which camp any of us belong to though as we all have one thing in common..a passion for the MK5. Now, lets all hug and share the love

[Maverick]

Lol..as you can see Jets, this topic gets some people's emotions running high. From what i've seen there are 2 camps and no in betweens. You have the guys who are either **** scared of using anyone except a genuine dealer or so devoted that they are prepared to pay higher costs for their "peace of mind" and no matter what you say, they will defend their decision and possibly make you feel inferior for not being the same.

It has nothing to do with being **** scared of using anyone except the dealer.

It's called common sense. If you want to dispute how complex cars are now (especially cars like the Golf) then by all means go ahead and do that but I am willing to pay to get the job down how I want, to have no problems with responsiblity if something is broken and to know that the service/repair is done correctly and with reference to VW TSB's. I can get any warranty work done at the same time and I get a free loan car.

Not only that I protect my resale value as I have a proper service record which is worth more on trade (especially over a car serviced at ultratune ) and the peace of mind that if something occurs out of warranty that the dealer and VW are much more likely to assist if you have history with them.

I paid around $50k for my GTI, why would I skimp and try and save $100-200 per year and have some idiot who doesn't know what he is doing perform the service?

Then there are the others..the ones who don't really fall for the "must be serviced by dealer" gimmick and are prepared to do a bit of research and calling around to save a few dollars. Most who are in this camp don't care what others think as they now have more money in their pocket to spend on something else.

By all means take your car to ultratune, you will have warranty problems and car problems as ultratune are not fitted out to handle the service properly, the staff there are the ones who can't even get a job at Kmart auto and the standards of service are very low.

What would actually make more sense is to take it to VW specialist who does a lot of Mark V's, the price will be closer to VW so it's not really an option when you're happy to take your $30K+ car to the absolute cheapest chain with the worst reputation in order to save a few hundred dollars a year.

It really doesn't matter which camp any of us belong to though as we all have one thing in common..a passion for the MK5.

If that were true you wouldn't take the car to ultratune. I really don't know how anyone could take any car there, generally the people that go there don't care about their cars and have a low level of understanding about cars.

[TDIESEL]

It has nothing to do with being **** scared of using anyone except the dealer.

It's called common sense. If you want to dispute how complex cars are now (especially cars like the Golf) then by all means go ahead and do that but I am willing to pay to get the job down how I want, to have no problems with responsiblity if something is broken and to know that the service/repair is done correctly and with reference to VW TSB's. I can get any warranty work done at the same time and I get a free loan car.

Not only that I protect my resale value as I have a proper service record which is worth more on trade (especially over a car serviced at ultratune ) and the peace of mind that if something occurs out of warranty that the dealer and VW are much more likely to assist if you have history with them.

I paid around $50k for my GTI, why would I skimp and try and save $100-200 per year and have some idiot who doesn't know what he is doing perform the service?



By all means take your car to ultratune, you will have warranty problems and car problems as ultratune are not fitted out to handle the service properly, the staff there are the ones who can't even get a job at Kmart auto and the standards of service are very low.

What would actually make more sense is to take it to VW specialist who does a lot of Mark V's, the price will be closer to VW so it's not really an option when you're happy to take your $30K+ car to the absolute cheapest chain with the worst reputation in order to save a few hundred dollars a year.



If that were true you wouldn't take the car to ultratune. I really don't know how anyone could take any car there, generally the people that go there don't care about their cars and have a low level of understanding about cars.

I wasn't going to reply to this but I guess it's a perfect example of what I just said isn't it? Now what does my 7 year old say....thats right, sticks and stones....

Enjoy your GTI Maverick and I'll enjoy my TDI

p.s. it wouldn't hurt to respect others choices.