Holy smoken Tow bars - are these things Gold Plated?

[BarneyBoy]

Is the dealer using the lower rear valence that has the tow bar cut out and replaceable cover where the tongue comes out? It's definitely a VW spare, cos I've seen the spare parts pages for them (there's one for the regular Golf, one for the GT, & one for the GTI. Maybe that's another reason the bar costs so much - there's a new valence involved?

[Greg Roles]

Towbar complete as it came. Chrome ball cap, rubber shin guard.

Egg-sacktly the same as mine. I don't even notice the mount with the removable tongue out!

[BarneyBoy]

I've found a shot of the OEM valence with cut out and an ETKA page with the part shown.

There's a pretty comprehensive towbar forum here:

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

It has its own Major Thread heading.

[MultiplexMan]

As mentioned above, the factory bar kit works properly with the ABS, ASC &c, tells you of bulb-outs and so on, plus it apparently works in with your parking sensors (if fitted) by switching off the reverse sensors when a trailer is hooked up.

I was told a similar tale by four different dealerships (service departments) and VW Tech Support. No answer when asked to "please explain".

Interesting details to note (if someone could explain it would be appreciated):

- How does ABS/ESC function change if a trailer is attached?
ABS inputs are primarily individual wheel rotation speeds, throttle and brake %, vehicle speed, steering angle, and pitch/yaw.

- How does the "vehicle" identify the configuration of the item attached to the towbar? For instance a bike rack versus a caravan? The system has no way of inferring length behind rear axle, mass, ...etc. The "trailer socket" only reports an item plugged into the connector.

- Same questions with regard to ASC...etc.

Bulb outs - yes that is valid as the total resistance of the light circuit changes when you add another set of tail/number plate lights.

Rear park sensors - yes, when the rear socket is used the park sensors are switched OFF.

So it appears we are being charged a premium for a logic switch...

I'd understand the premium if the rear bar was being replaced with the painted OEM spare as per ETKA...


Bosch Handbook and Technical Papers make great reading for those that want to know how these systems are meant to work - written by the designers themselves.

Bosch ABS/ESC

http://www.bosch-escential.com/us/language1/espabsasr.html

Cheers, MM

PS If some one could point out which blocks change when the "trailer" socket is used, I'll happily record them with a VAG-COM unit...

[BarneyBoy]

I take it (from your name) that you have some experience in this stuff!
Makes it even funnier!

[LiFers]

- How does ABS/ESC function change if a trailer is attached?
ABS inputs are primarily individual wheel rotation speeds, throttle and brake %, vehicle speed, steering angle, and pitch/yaw.

- Same questions with regard to ASC...etc.

I've read about one of the marques having released an ESP that detects trailer jack knifing and works to prevent/avoid/fix it. I believe it was Volvo and they were talking about an estate/wagon. It was some time ago and they had definitely brought it to market, ie there are some ESP/VSC/ASC/ESC systems that do have programming to stabilise towed loads.

I'm sure Bosch charge a premium for the pleasure of the programming, and I'd be willing to bet VW do not have it on the Golf.

[craigy]

My Hayman Reece bar was $600 fitted at Rallyspeed in Artarmon. The is included the canbus adaptor. The BestBars looks a bit better but $900 in my pocket felt better again.

[vanDub]

As mentioned above, the factory bar kit works properly with the ABS, ASC &c, tells you of bulb-outs and so on, plus it apparently works in with your parking sensors (if fitted) by switching off the reverse sensors when a trailer is hooked up.

Don't count on it.

I paid megabucks for the genuine tow bar only to find the parking sensors do NOT turn off when the trailer is connected. The manual says that it does for a FACTORY FITTED towbar which might apply in Europe. Our towbars are DEALER FITTED and made by a kiwi outfit (ie it is not factory fitted and is really an aftermarket towbar approved by VW). Haven't figured out if the other stuff works or not.

[VW Convert]

Don't count on it.

I paid megabucks for the genuine tow bar only to find the parking sensors do NOT turn off when the trailer is connected. The manual says that it does for a FACTORY FITTED towbar which might apply in Europe. Our towbars are DEALER FITTED and made by a kiwi outfit (ie it is not factory fitted and is really an aftermarket towbar approved by VW). Haven't figured out if the other stuff works or not.

I got the genuine dealer fitted towbar, it was a total schemozzle they ended up having to refit it and replace the rear bumper bar because they had totally stuffed it up. I think the price is outrageous and is definitely a case of limited competition = high prices.

BTW, my reverse sensors don't operate when the towbar is in use.

Cheers

George

[Maverick]

Don't count on it.

I paid megabucks for the genuine tow bar only to find the parking sensors do NOT turn off when the trailer is connected. The manual says that it does for a FACTORY FITTED towbar which might apply in Europe. Our towbars are DEALER FITTED and made by a kiwi outfit (ie it is not factory fitted and is really an aftermarket towbar approved by VW). Haven't figured out if the other stuff works or not.

Are your reverse sensors factory fitted or dealer fitted?

I'd be betting that you have cheap aftermarket sensors fitted by the dealer who charged you the price of the factory fitted ones. Are they set back into the bumper or are they raised?

[Maverick]

I've read about one of the marques having released an ESP that detects trailer jack knifing and works to prevent/avoid/fix it. I believe it was Volvo and they were talking about an estate/wagon. It was some time ago and they had definitely brought it to market, ie there are some ESP/VSC/ASC/ESC systems that do have programming to stabilise towed loads.

I'm sure Bosch charge a premium for the pleasure of the programming,

Do you expect them to develop it, test it and market this system and then give it away for free??

and I'd be willing to bet VW do not have it on the Golf.

It does have have this system STANDARD on all cars with ESC.

And if you have the GTI or the GT with the optional alarm then you also have trailer protection, someone unplugs a trailer that is connected when you arm the alarm and the alarm will trigger.

[MultiplexMan]

There are several styles of trailer harness available.

The VAG harness (between $100-200: there was a price range when I went shopping for the harness as a spare part) interfaces at the rear light cluster - and extends the existing lighting circuit.

There is a VERY long signal wire that interfaces to the PDC (park distance control) module located on the firewall (passenger side footwell from memory). This is only required with vehicles fitted with both front & rear sensors (Multivan, Passat-at time I was doing install). This is explained in the installation instructions supplied with the harness.

My GTI only had rear sensors and did not require the connection of the long signal wire. My PDC module was in the rear and "spliced" into the rear lighting harness.

A second style of harness takes power from the battery and relays the rear light cluster signals - only trace power is taken from the vehicle lighting circuit. Some HR installers offer this harness as an option (around $100 saving over the VAG harness).

Taking your vehicle to a dealership will almost guarrantee you the highest quote (around double for my GTI, and 60% more for my T5). The main difference was in labour quoted as I used VAG parts (harness and hitch). A dealership will not guarrantee you a quality job - refer to posts/experiences of other forum members.

One VW dealership estimated almost double the hours than its sister dealership (same franchise). I was under the impression that dealerships worked off a "standard table" - this is not the case with all items. I have experienced this variation with spare part quotes too.

I would strongly recommend using the VAG harness. There was no physical difference in the hitch receivers.

Cheers, MM



BTW Cobra Germany supply "ParkMaster" modules for Votex. The different part numbers in the Votex catalog give you vehicle specific instructions, a different cardboard box...but the same module. Cobra supply two modules - front and rear specific.

http://www.cobra-alarm.de/

With regard to park sensors, it may be the case the OEM factory fitted sensors are Bosch (or whomever VAG has supply contract with this year).

http://rb-k.bosch.de/en/safety_comfort/driving_comfort/driverassistancesystems/parkingaid/components.html

http://aa.bosch.de/advastaboschaa/Product.jsp?prod_id=324&ccat_id=132&language=en-GB&publication=1

Votex has always supplied Cobra PDC kits to my knowledge. So if you want to retro fit flush mount sensors - order Bosch (non VAG retro fit). If you want "cheap looking" sensors - order Votex (Cobra) - VAG retro fit kit/spare part. My GTI had Bosch and my T5 has Cobra. Aesthetically I don't mind either and both styles work equally well.

Mounting style of the sensor does not indicate quality of the sensor.

Trailer Protection = standard function of alarm module, that is, electrical circuit break detection. Factory loom supports this as the trailer harness becomes an extension of the vehicle harness.

[Maverick]

Votex has always supplied Cobra PDC kits to my knowledge. So if you want to retro fit flush mount sensors - order Bosch (non VAG retro fit). If you want "cheap looking" sensors - order Votex (Cobra) - VAG retro fit kit/spare part. My GTI had Bosch and my T5 has Cobra. Aesthetically I don't mind either and both styles work equally well.

Mounting style of the sensor does not indicate quality of the sensor.

The only way to have flush mounted sensors is to replace the top half of the rear bumper with the bar designed for the oem sensors. The dealers don't do this and fit a cheap $50 set of reverse sensors that don't integrate into the car, look like crud and charge $790-$890 for the privilege whilst describing them as the same as if they came from the factory.

[MultiplexMan]

The only way to have flush mounted sensors is to replace the top half of the rear bumper with the bar designed for the oem sensors.

Instead of sandwiching the bar between sensor housing and retaining ring, the ring is bonded to the inside of the bar.

A smaller hole, as per OEM is cut in the bar.

The sensor is threaded into the retaining ring from inside the bar until the face is flush with the exterior of the bar. The Bosch sensor body is threaded sufficiently for this range of adjustment.

Only the sensor face is visible.

The finished install is as per OEM.

Cheers, MM


Apologies for the thread hijack

[Maverick]

A smaller hole, as per OEM is cut in the bar.

The sensor is threaded into the retaining ring from inside the bar until the face is flush with the exterior of the bar. The Bosch sensor body is threaded sufficiently for this range of adjustment.

Only the sensor face is visible.

The finished install is as per OEM.

Thanks, I'll check them out but do they work with the VW PD Controller?

How is the ring bonded to the inside of the bar?