INFO: Engine Swap? Transmission?

[Levo]

Hi all.

My gearbox has **** itself in my MK4 1.6L Rally.
I bought a 1.6L with a reconditioned gearbox from Sydney which I am looking to put in my Rally, but I am also gathering information on other options...

So, I have a few questions though...

1. Gear ratios - I understand that for different amounts of torque and Kw, you will need to have different gear ratios to put the power down. What I am asking, is how far can you go with a 1.6L gearbox? If I get a 1.8L or 2.0L, could I get away with a 1.6L gearbox (I have a reco gearbox)?

2. Engine - How much would I be looking at to buy a (solid) engine? I had a quote for a VR6 from a wreckers in Melbourne, which was $1, 800 without any information on how many km's.. has anyone bought an engine (including ECU and gearbox) that could give me a rough estimate?

3. Swap - To swap my gearbox (which would include checking all components and transferring the best of each car into one) will be around $800 - $1000. Has anyone swapped their engine and could give me a ball park figure?

[kendog]

Hi Levo,

I had a MK4 Golf, 1.6L (AKL), with a DUU gearbox. The gearbox shot a rivet through the case, and stuffed it.

After many quotes, including 2nd hand gearboxes, 'reconditioned' gearboxes, 're-built' gearboxes, etc. I ended up buying a GTI 1.8T engine, gearbox, ecu, driveshafts, subframe, etc to swap all from one driveable write off. The 1.8T parts cost me about $1600, I also bought parts for a water pump/timing belt etc replacement while the engine was out, before install to mine, $400, and then the labour would've cost me about $2000 for the swap, which may be more expensive if you only give them parts instead of 2 perfectly working cars.

All up about $3500-$4000. A lot of money, but a reconditioned gearbox + clutch + install was almost the same, and I would've been still stuck with the wussy 1.6L engine! I'm MUCH happier now.

Also, Clarkee has a properly rebuilt 1.6L gearbox for sale! I would've bought it for mine, but it didn't match & I'd already gone ahead with my expensive transformation.

In hindsight, I should've bought a 2nd hand gearbox & sold the 1.6L car, then maybe bought a gti, but I'm happy where I ended up, it just cost me a little more. If you are able to do all the mechanical/labour, you will save yourself generally half the cost on either option.

[Manaz]

To put in a VR6, you'd need to either get a compatible FWD gearbox (the VR6 Mk4s in AU only came as AWD as a Bora V6 4Mo), or if it's a Mk3 VR6, you'd be unable to put it in the car at all (even if it'd work, it'd never pass engineering, as the engine can't be older than the chassis).

[kendog]

That's a bummer. I wish they'd sold MK4 VR6 Golfs in AU.. AWD would be amazing, but I'm sure REALLY hard, if actually possible?..

[Levo]

Cheers guys!

I had the same issue with a rivet through the casing. Was not good timing either!
I have a reco gearbox which came in the golf I bought for $2500 from Sydney. Not a bad buy!

If only I had the utilities and time to do it myself... The GTI transfer doesn't sound like a bad option, but I wouldn't be able to drive it (I'm still a lowly P-plater).

Ah! I didn't know that about getting a car engineered, thanks for the headsup. Very useful information.

Would there be many people interested in buying a parts car from your experience?

[Manaz]

That's a bummer. I wish they'd sold MK4 VR6 Golfs in AU.. AWD would be amazing, but I'm sure REALLY hard, if actually possible?..

Apparently possible, but requires lots of work (changes to the floorpan, etc, requires a donor AWD chassis as well).

[kendog]

Ah! I didn't know that about getting a car engineered, thanks for the headsup. Very useful information.

Yeah, I just went through the Rego & Insurance process with my 1.6L converted to 1.8T Golf. Apparently if the engine didn't come in that exact body shape, then it needs an engineering cert., and it is also then classified as a modified car, modified engine. And then that throws a heap of problems your way for insurance + as a P Plater... So any engine that wasn't already in a 5 door mk4 golf (in AU) = modified.

Apparently possible, but requires lots of work (changes to the floorpan, etc, requires a donor AWD chassis as well).

Thanks Manaz. Similar to R32 swap then I guess. I'd love a 5 door R32!

[Levo]

Thanks Manaz. Similar to R32 swap then I guess. I'd love a 5 door R32!

Mmm... Those R32s are so god damned sexy!
It's a bit of a shame that more golfs weren't AWD!

[kendog]

Mmm... Those R32s are so god damned sexy!
It's a bit of a shame that more golfs weren't AWD!

Yeah, and besides the awesome drive, my rear wheel drive mates wouldn't give me any stick either!

[Levo]

The peer pressure and the friendly competition is a lot of what compels me to modify my car...

Especially my mate with his Honda Prelude...


OH! I have a question, do you find that with your GTi conversion that you have quite a lot torque steer?
... How does it handle now that you've done the conversion?

[Manaz]

The peer pressure and the friendly competition is a lot of what compels me to modify my car...

Especially my mate with his Honda Prelude...


OH! I have a question, do you find that with your GTi conversion that you have quite a lot torque steer?
... How does it handle now that you've done the conversion?

The stock GTI (GTi is for Suzukis) engine only had 110kW and not a lot of torque (210Nm it turns out). So if you stay stock, not a big issue.

Once you start tuning them though, they could get more interesting. That said, I don't notice torque steer at all on the Bora 4Mo - and that has 150kW and 270Nm of torque (albeit delivered quite differently).

[kendog]

The best way I can describe it is: it now just feels 'right'. It always felt like I just needed a bit more oomph. I don't think I'm noticing too much in what people call 'torque steer', but I'm not exactly sure what it's meant to feel like either.

I'm putting in a replacement ECU on the weekend, with APR Stage 1 already loaded, so things will be quite different again, especially torque apparently.

Original 1.6L: 74kw,
GTI 1.8T: 110kw,
APR stage 1: 146kw,

... so around double what I had with the 1.6L. I think I had a strong & very good condition version of the AKL 1.6L compared to others I'd driven, just a weak gearbox. PS - I have the 1.6L AKL engine for sale too if you hear of anyone in need. I had just done work on it too.. Timing Belt Kit, Water Pump, Rocker cover gasket, etc. Drove perfectly for a month, spotless engine bay, everything perfect... until the gearbox threw a rivet! No words can describe how pissed off I was that I'd just spent over $1000 on it, that could've been used to get me out of the hole the gearbox had gotten me into..

[Umai Naa!!]

To put in a VR6, you'd need to either get a compatible FWD gearbox (the VR6 Mk4s in AU only came as AWD as a Bora V6 4Mo), or if it's a Mk3 VR6, you'd be unable to put it in the car at all (even if it'd work, it'd never pass engineering, as the engine can't be older than the chassis).

Bora V5 gearbox would work.

[Levo]

Drove perfectly for a month, spotless engine bay, everything perfect... until the gearbox threw a rivet! No words can describe how pissed off I was that I'd just spent over $1000 on it, that could've been used to get me out of the hole the gearbox had gotten me into..

Wow, that is a very impressive power gain from just the ECU!

I know the feeling exactly! I had just replaced the starter motor, CV joints and tyres (nearly $2000 all up) and then, same as you, rivet through the casing!

... That was about 3 months ago, I've been starting it every week for a while to make sure the engine doesn't seize, when the battery cracked it too! I'm driving the $2500 Golf I got from Sydney at the moment which needs a whole heap of work to actually be roadworthy.

Now I am thinking that I should try and make the car I have now decent and use the other car as a project car... Which wouldn't be such a bad idea...

[kendog]

Nope, not a bad idea at all.. cheapest idea probably...