Bora 4mo ESP kicking in at slow speeds

[kapowww]

When I do a u-turn in my Bora 4mo at slow speeds I see the ESP light flash on and off and feel it braking a bit and it gets a bit jolty. I've only had this car for a very short time but since I believe it's similar to my old Audi A4 B6 1.8TQ surely it shouldn't be doing this?

What could be the problem? When I bought it the dealer gave me some BS about it being the delayed power being transferred to the wheels as I understand it takes about 1/7 of a wheel rotation to realise it has to give the rears power. On testing I now realise it's braking not sending power..

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UPDATE: 12/08/2011

PROBLEM:
When turning in a tight circle (pretty much full lock) at low speeds going forward or in reverse it feels like the outside wheel isn't keeping up with the inside wheel, either by braking (ESP light flashes) or dragging as a few mechanics think it's a screwed diff. This causes the car to feel like it's bunny hopping. When turning faster the problem doesn't occur. It's hard to reverse as I normally reverse slowly to park and sometimes the car doesn't want to move at all.

SUSPECTS:
1. Haldex controller
2. Diff
3. ESP/ABS sensors

TESTS:
1. Haldex and rear diff oil and filters were changed, problem still there and might have gotten temporarily worse.
2. Removed fuse 31 (Haldex) and car works fine in FWD mode.
3. Turned off ESP at the console and the problem is still there.
4. Removed fuse 9 (ABS) and the problem is still there.

UPDATE: 30/11/2011

The rear diff was the problem, or more specifically the clutch packs in the rear diff. This was due to the Haldex service not being carried out at the recommended intervals. It was fixed today by replacing the rear diff (along with the Haldex) and now I can do donuts all day! Win!

[balkanac]

Bora's 4motion and audi' quattro are 2 different things. I have the same system in my car and it does not do that when doing a u turn. Its probably the haldex controller, or some sensor somewhere, but def something wrong.
My car was doing a similar thing when i lowered it and took it for a drive. The wheel alignment was so much out that the ESP was seeing the wheels as sliding and kept trying to correct that. I think thats what your car is trying to do too.
Get it to a VAG specialist and see if throws any codes

[kapowww]

Oh true, the haldex vs the torsen?

Yeah good idea to get it checked as it's still under warranty. Was just wondering if buying a haldex controller would fix it... (just want an excuse to buy one lol)

[Manaz]

It won't be braking - the Mk4 ESC system doesn't apply brakes, it cuts power. What you may be experiencing is some driveline shunt on tight corners if there's power going to the rear, as the front and rear wheels trace different arcs in a tight turn (as do the inside and outside wheels) and due to the differences, the ESC can get a bit funny and you can get a bit of "crabbing".

Your car already has a Haldex controller. You're considering an upgrade - which potentially actually makes this kind of issue worse.

[WhO]

Thats correct for Traction Control, but if ESP is cutting in it could and would be braking as thats how ESP works. Also could be EDL playing up?

Have you scanned for fault codes?

I like balkanac had issues with esp cutting in when my wheel alignment was horribly off (prior to a re-alignment after a full suspension swap) but it only happened on sweeping corners.

[kapowww]

I'll bring it over to a mechanic this weekend to check it out and then bring it back to the dealer. I'll be receiving my coilovers soon so I"ll probably hold off installing them until this is sorted out, unless installing and aligning would fix the problem?? I think I'll wait and see..

[geoff_gti]

If you're changing your suspension, you'll need a full alignment after it's installed anyway. Why double up? I'd get that done first & let it all settle down, then address the above issue. Consider the fact if you're doing a U turn that the wheel closest to the corner you are tuning into has much less distance to travel around the corner than the front wheel on the other side. I can spin a wheel if I'm cornering (without traction control) so it's possibly just that you're accelerating through the corner a bit too much

[kapowww]

If you're changing your suspension, you'll need a full alignment after it's installed anyway. Why double up? I'd get that done first & let it all settle down, then address the above issue. Consider the fact if you're doing a U turn that the wheel closest to the corner you are tuning into has much less distance to travel around the corner than the front wheel on the other side. I can spin a wheel if I'm cornering (without traction control) so it's possibly just that you're accelerating through the corner a bit too much

I'll only double up if the dealer can fix the problem under warranty in case it's something else. I was thinking I was accelerating too quickly but surely not because even my wife told me of the same problem without me telling her about it. Even if I was accelerating too quickly the amounts the ESP kicks in is way too aggressive and was dangerous last night in the wet when I had to u-turn to beat traffic and it went too slow =[

It reminds me.. I gotta get insurance for this baby..

[WhO]

Yeh tbh i doubt your spinning wheels doing a u turn, the 4motion system is pretty decent. With standard power and reasonable tyres it usually takes a very aggressive u-turn or a clutch kick to get it to spin. I can easily accidentally get our jetta to spin the inside wheel doing a u turn or cornering if i'm in the slightest hurry but never happened in the bora unless i'm really in a hurry or giving it some.

Seemings as you appear to have some warranty of some kind from the dealer give it back to them and tell them to fix it. If they dont believe anything is wrong with it take it to a VW specalist and get their opinion, get them to put something in writing and take that back to the dealer. Hopefully the VW specalist will help you out, i'm sure there's some good ones in melb and i'm sure the goodwill of future business would be enough to have one at least have a quick look.

In over 3 years of owning a 4motion i've found ESP to not be overly aggressive with it NEVER having cut in during normal street use. The only time i ever had issues with it cutting in prematurely was when i had an alignment that was massivly off after a full suspension swap.

Insurance... your driving without any...

[kapowww]

Yeah thanks for that. With what all you guys have been talking about seems like I definitely have a problem and will bring it back. I've been dealing with Audvolks for the past couple of years down here in Melb with my Audis and James the mechanic is a top bloke. He offered to check it out for free if the dealer jerks me around.

Yep we've only driven it 3 times but yeah totally forgot about insurance! To me it's the sorta car and price range where I'm not sure if it's worth getting full comp. I've only ever had 3rd party and with my driving style I doubt I'd cause an accident that'll total the car..... Hopefully.

[kapowww]

Update: I brought my car back to the dealer today and their mechanic says that the rear diff needs to be serviced and is therefore not covered under warranty. Does that sound legitimate or are they jumping to the easiest conclusion for them, trying to get me to pay for a service and then if it doesn't fix it only then they will look properly?

I'm just really disappointed and upset as this is a dangerous problem when u-turning, especially with oncoming traffic. The car jolts and practically stops..

[TTRossi]

I've experienced very similar issues recently and have yet to have the definitive solution for mine but I'm oh so close. During my testing to replicate the scenarios of crabbing and lurching during tight manoeuvres I've found that in most cases if I dip the clutch slightly a couple of times as I make the turn it seems to take the worst out of it and settle the car down. Not ideal, but it does help in my case. Otherwise I simply remove fuse 31 if I know I've got a bunch of heavy city driving to negotiate.

I'm hoping to swap over my controller temporarily this weekend and hopefully discover that this is the culprit of my woes. I wouldn't be surprised if this is your problem too, it's far more common than I realised when I bought the 4Mo.

All the best, Rossi ; )

[kapowww]

I've experienced very similar issues recently and have yet to have the definitive solution for mine but I'm oh so close. During my testing to replicate the scenarios of crabbing and lurching during tight manoeuvres I've found that in most cases if I dip the clutch slightly a couple of times as I make the turn it seems to take the worst out of it and settle the car down. Not ideal, but it does help in my case. Otherwise I simply remove fuse 31 if I know I've got a bunch of heavy city driving to negotiate.

I'm hoping to swap over my controller temporarily this weekend and hopefully discover that this is the culprit of my woes. I wouldn't be surprised if this is your problem too, it's far more common than I realised when I bought the 4Mo.

All the best, Rossi ; )

Ahh thanks for the info Rossi. I took the car in tonight to Audvolks and we couldn't find a definitive answer. There are supposedly a couple of TTs with the same problem at the moment. I'll try to remove the fuse and see if the problem still occurs.

Theories included stuffed diff or the clutches in the diff or diff oil needing a change. In my case if the diff needs changing it's better because it's under warranty and they don't cover a service.

Good luck! Let me know how you go.

[kapowww]

Update: On the weekend I had my Haldex and rear diff serviced and the problem's still there. Most likely a diff problem..

[gringo_54_oval]

Hey i had a problem once in my 4 mo when ever i turned into swooping bend at the end of victoria rd at a faster speed than the sign says my esp would make the car unstable always when i turned into a right hander.
turned out to be a stuffed wheel bearing. got that fixed and now i take that bend a lot faster before anything goes off.

I dont know if that helps you but good luck with sorting out the problem