Backo n H's Mk1 build

[Backo]

Some time ago, H (my brother in law) rang me asking if I wanted a Golf. As anyone would, I said yes but it never really eventuated. Life gets in the way sometimes.

About 6 months ago H rang again. A deal was struck, joint venture build between H and myself was planned. The shed was cleaned out of old stalled projects and piles of built up crap. That took a while. Finally managed to hire a car trailer and a road trip to pick up the 2 door was under way.

We found it piled to the window line full of parts that were stockpiled over the years. Some good stuff, some useful stuff, some crap too.

Here it is ready to roll onto the trailer







Audi 2.0l bubble block and 5 speed awaiting the rebuild







Finally at home

[Backo]

After a long day, I was super keen to get this build rolling. The spare motor was parted from the 5 speed, clutch and flywheel and put up onto the stand. It was hard work getting it down off the bench then onto the stand by myself without dropping it. I thought I did a hernia at one stage

Oil is draining overnight.



Lynx manifold. Not sure what carby's are stashed in the car to suit it. I might have a dig around tomorrow.





The plan at the moment is to get the 1.6 under the bonnet running sweet, maybe adding a few go fast bits here and there that are stashed away. The 2.0l will be built properly using only the best bits. I will do this while H does the body and panel work. For now, it will be cleaned then stripped down to check its condition and suitability for the build.

[sports racer]

Looks like you and your brother-in-law have a lot of work to do to turn this into a hillclimb special so post lots of pictures as you go. Should be an interesting thread.

Get the 1600 running for rego but put that 2.0 in as soon as you can. In a 750 kg car they go really well and you wouldn't believe how much fun you can have with a 30 year old car when the suspension is set up properly too.

For the 2.0 you won't get a crossflow head to suit. You need a full engine in that spec and they were only imported in small numbers in Seat Cupras. If you're after 200+ hp you need to look at fitting a 1.8 20v turbo from an Audi or MK4 Golf. Depends on what class you're looking at entering for hillclimbs.

Cheers

Paul

[Notso Swift]

1.8 turbo becomes over 3 litre class in CAMS events (3027cc)

[Backo]

No turbo for this build. N/A screamer is the only way to live. Considering that, will a 16v or 20v head bolt onto this block or should I be looking elsewhere for another motor?
This morning I stripped the 2.0l down to the block. No problems with seized bolts, everything came undone nicely. The rocker cover was taken off to inspect the cam as well. A bit scored but it will polish up ok if its needed. I didn't have the right 12 point torx thingy to take the head bolts out. I will get one tomorrow and whip the head off to inspect the bores.

I got the 1.6 running today with a bit of fuel down the carb and jumped it off the Subaru. It started first time. Not bad for sitting in the weather since 2006. The carb will need a rebuild and cleaning out as well as flushing the tank and getting some fresh fuel in it. That will keep it mobile for the time being until the teardown begins.

Today we pulled all the parts out that were piled up inside and hit it with the pressure washer inside and out, top to bottom. Underneath and the back half of the car inside and out were done previously. Completely back to bare metal and sprayed in stone guard so its pretty good. The front half of the cabin, the doors and front guards all need attention. Lost of rust in the passengers floor area. Its not an issue as the whole lot will get cut out and redone. The phone is flat so no pics today, plenty to come in the future though.

[Water Boy]

1.8 turbo becomes over 3 litre class in CAMS events (3027cc)

Ehhh? 2% tolerance!

[Preen59]

Cool project. Good luck with it. If you need to source parts let me know.

That manifold is for a single DCOE/Solex/Delorto.

You can make 200hp out of a 16v. It will take some cash and time but it's doable. You should also remember that with the bore/stroke ratio these engines make tremendous torque. HP isn't everything.

[sports racer]

You won't get a 16v or 20v head to fit your block, you'll need the complete engine. The 2.0 16v is a rare motor in Oz so you might have to do some research to find one. They did come out in Seat Cupra's so keep an eye open for one. I've just picked up a Cupra track car and I'm going to swap the mechanicals into my road going MK1 so I'll be following your progress with great interest.

Have a look at Peter Jones's thread, he's already done what you're planning to do.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/...car-23140.html

You might get lucky and find an old 1600 motor that was setup for F2 racing years ago. They were quick but I don't know how reliable they were, might be a one race wonder then rebuild. I've also heard of a 1600 that ran a crank from a 1300 but with bigger pistons to get back to the 1600 limit. Supposedly good for 10,000 rpm all day long. There's a video somewhere on Youtube showing it leading a V8 Rover Touring Car from race start to finish in a Classic car race.

Cheers

Paul

[Notso Swift]

Ehhh? 2% tolerance!

Notice I didn't say IP Mr Woodward
This is for hillclimb and the standing regs do not allow the 2%

[Peter Jones]

If I were to build a dedicated hill climber starting with what you've got there...

• Build the car as light as possible, absolutely minimal nothing but an oil warning lamp on the dash, 1 seat and controls.
• Chuck away the stock wiring and reinstall just enough to make it run
• 13" x 10 wheels running very soft wets
• Don't bother with upgrading the brakes just make sure they work so you can stop when it's over. Maybe GTI calipers up front, they'll still fit under the 13s.
• I'd initially run the 1600 to set the car up and get used it.
• If 2.0L is an option then I'd be thinking really hard about the NA 20V motors with the aluminium block.They're really cheap now. Bang some carbs on and go.

That's making a lot of assumptions of course.

Do you intend to register it or trailer it to the track?

There's a fair difference between building for hillclimb vs sprint if you're taking it to the extreme. You'll have to lean towards one or the other and if there's compromises to be made favour the type of racing you most prefer.

I could blather on about all manner of technical stuff but really you need to put it all together and see what you need to change to suit you and your driving style.

Take a look around the Berg Cup site for some ideas. Berg-Cup e.V. - Spaß am Berg - Willkommen beim Berg-Cup e.V. - Gruppe H

There's so much you could do with this.

Main thing is to do it your way and get out there and have some fun with it.

[Backo]

You won't get a 16v or 20v head to fit your block, you'll need the complete engine. The 2.0 16v is a rare motor in Oz so you might have to do some research to find one. They did come out in Seat Cupra's so keep an eye open for one. I've just picked up a Cupra track car and I'm going to swap the mechanicals into my road going MK1 so I'll be following your progress with great interest.

Have a look at Peter Jones's thread, he's already done what you're planning to do.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f55/another-wreck-another-race-car-23140.html

You might get lucky and find an old 1600 motor that was setup for F2 racing years ago. They were quick but I don't know how reliable they were, might be a one race wonder then rebuild. I've also heard of a 1600 that ran a crank from a 1300 but with bigger pistons to get back to the 1600 limit. Supposedly good for 10,000 rpm all day long. There's a video somewhere on Youtube showing it leading a V8 Rover Touring Car from race start to finish in a Classic car race.

Cheers

Paul

More valuable info, thanks Paul. I'm on a steep learning curve here with Euro cars.
I have been over that thread a couple of times but I need to do so again.
Got a link to the video?

Cool project. Good luck with it. If you need to source parts let me know.

That manifold is for a single DCOE/Solex/Delorto.

You can make 200hp out of a 16v. It will take some cash and time but it's doable. You should also remember that with the bore/stroke ratio these engines make tremendous torque. HP isn't everything.

Thanks Chris. I did find a DCOE 45 in the car yesterday that will probably be used at some point. Needs a rebuild kit through it but it should work well. PM inbound mate.

I downloaded the tech regs for the Targa Australia series last night and have had a quick look through it. Sopke to H today and he is super keen. Tarmac Rally here we come!

[Backo]

If I were to build a dedicated hill climber starting with what you've got there...

• Build the car as light as possible, absolutely minimal nothing but an oil warning lamp on the dash, 1 seat and controls. May be heading towards Tarmac rally now, but this is the general idea. Bare minimum required
• Chuck away the stock wiring and reinstall just enough to make it run Complete new harness will be made up
• 13" x 10 wheels running very soft wets Got heaps of wheels, will have to stocktake it all
• Don't bother with upgrading the brakes just make sure they work so you can stop when it's over. Maybe GTI calipers up front, they'll still fit under the 13s.
• I'd initially run the 1600 to set the car up and get used it. Thats the initial plan
• If 2.0L is an option then I'd be thinking really hard about the NA 20V motors with the aluminium block.They're really cheap now. Bang some carbs on and go. What models were these in? Exactly the info I'm after thanks.

That's making a lot of assumptions of course.

Do you intend to register it or trailer it to the track? Will be on at least club rego however depending on distance, will probably be towing it.

There's a fair difference between building for hillclimb vs sprint if you're taking it to the extreme. You'll have to lean towards one or the other and if there's compromises to be made favour the type of racing you most prefer.

I could blather on about all manner of technical stuff but really you need to put it all together and see what you need to change to suit you and your driving style.

Take a look around the Berg Cup site for some ideas. Berg-Cup e.V. - Spaß am Berg - Willkommen beim Berg-Cup e.V. - Gruppe H Lots of reading there thanks, but how to English it? I will sort that out later

There's so much you could do with this.

Main thing is to do it your way and get out there and have some fun with it.

Cheers Peter. We need to sit down and sort out a definite direction here. Thanks for the info and encouragement

[Peter Jones]

Tarmac rally is a different game again, you'll need it registered for the transfer stages so it'll have to be roadworthy.

A roll cage is pretty essential too.

Strong 14" wheels are the way to go for road rally use. 14 x 6 are really common for Golfs, pick a style you can get lots of.

Later Golfs and Passats came with the NA 20v motors, I'll look up the models when I get a chance.

You can use the Google Chrome browser and it'll translate for you. Generally I just look at the videos.

Best person on here to talk rally is Geoff Hale, he's really competitive in the HRA scene in his 1600 Golf.

[sports racer]

All aluminium motor? You're talking about the 1.8 20v aren't you. For a minute I was hoping you found a cheap source of aluminium blocks to suit my ABF head.

Why do you recommend 14" wheels? For normal road use I've found 15" with 50 profile to be better handling over 14's with 60 profile tyres. Admittedly I don't race but I do push hard enough through corners to occasionally slide.

[Water Boy]

Notice I didn't say IP Mr Woodward
This is for hillclimb and the standing regs do not allow the 2%

I know a few hillclimb people who are silly like me and think there is the 2% tolerance!
Lesson learned!