1976 LS Rust and tim tams

[elcono]

Hi

I have a question, its not the most exciting in the world im afraid

My question is about rust

At what point is rust a concern? I have a 1976 LS 5 door diesel that I picked up for 800 bucks and before I start anything major I would like to check the body out and do anything that needs doing now rather than later

Overall the car is pretty good, I have done a hammer test (tapped the inner wheel arch from the underside to see if it went straight through) and the only thing it seems to have left is a hole the size of a 5cent piece

The rear tailgate however sounds like I am crushing stale tim tams every time I shut the boot

So my question is, at what point is rust a concern on the MK1? is there any other major areas to check? is there any other tests that are a bit better than "the poke your finger through it" or "tap it with a hammer to see what happens"

I am a big fan of measure twice cut once, im not looking to rush it. Just looking to get it done properly so the car can last another 40 years (by which time bolt on hydrogen turbos will hopefully be common)





ELC

[dubstar]

I'd be more concerned about the lack of engine than rust. That's likely to impact you more

[Notso Swift]

Passenger footwell

[Jarred]

Interesting question. I'll try to be brief.

Realistically, the car is a monocoq chassis, so at any point which the weakened metal begins to compromise the structure of the car, is really when you're going to have issues. However, rust, is called 'metal cancer' for a reason, as once you have it, it tends to spread. At the point in which the rust starts becoming an issues structurally, you probably would have wanted to deal with the rust, lets say a good 3-5 years before hand.

Tail gate isn't an "issue" as it's a bolt on part. I'd be more concerned about; floors, sills, A pillars, roof, firewall, chassis legs etc etc etc

[elcono]

Its a good thing at the moment. Points on the license means miss daisy is overtaking me. It was a ebay buy, the car turned up with the engine in the boot, and the gearbox in the footwell. No idea what they were trying to do to the car but as everything has been taken out its kind of forced my hand to get a new engine/gb/tranny in

The engine conversion doesn't bother me too much. Its more the plumbing. Everything has been removed so it is going to be a steep learning curve over the next few months

As much as I want to go against the grain and not do a 20v-T conversion, it just makes too much sense from a $ to HP perspective. I keep doing pros and cons but the 20v-T is just great bang for the buck

[elcono]

Interesting question. I'll try to be brief.

Realistically, the car is a monocoq chassis, so at any point which the weakened metal begins to compromise the structure of the car, is really when you're going to have issues. However, rust, is called 'metal cancer' for a reason, as once you have it, it tends to spread. At the point in which the rust starts becoming an issues structurally, you probably would have wanted to deal with the rust, lets say a good 3-5 years before hand.


Tail gate isn't an "issue" as it's a bolt on part. I'd be more concerned about; floors, sills, A pillars, roof, firewall, chassis legs etc etc etc

Brilliant

That's pretty much hit the nail on the head in terms of where I need to look/address this

I see a fair amount of people powdercoating bays. Would you have an idea of the longevity this adds? I.e would a powder coated engine bay last longer than say new panels welded in but left alone? (other than paint)

Also as it seems I am going to have to take some night classes in welding, is their alternative metals other than standard steel? I.e is their a lighter but just as strong metal that can be used should panels be repaired? I would rather drop chasis weight and run stock than be heavy and need a tune

[Peter Jones]

It would be very difficult to powder coat an engine bay, I'm not sure what process you're referring to.

Powder coating involves heating the part in an oven to about 200°C to fuse the powder and cure it.

It's possible to do if you strip the car to a bare shell and can find a powder coater with a big enough oven to fit the entire car in.

Powder coating doesn't fix rusty panels though, it's just more durable paint.

The steel in the Golf should be replaced with the same gauge of steel or you risk compromising safety.

VW made these cars as light as they could already, you're not going to be able to remove enough weight to make any sort of difference by using lighter materials in repair sections.

Put up pictures of any rusty areas you find on the car and we'll be able to advise on the severity and suggest the best way to repair it.

There's plenty of rust repair threads on here, have a bit of a search about to see whats involved.

All the threads in my signature will have rust repairs somewhere in them take a look at this one for starters http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/...1-38301-6.html

[elcono]

Apologies for the delay

This is what I am referring to. There is around a 1 inch hole. Everywhere else doesn't seem to bad.

I have gone through and read a fair amount of material, but I cant see anyone that has had to repair the inner arch, only outer arches

Is the process any different?

[sports racer]

Start by grinding off the paint all around the hole so you can see how much you have to cut out and replace.

[Stanton]

It is rusted from the inside out.Pull all the carpet and sound deadener out and the see what you find.Normally rust and lots of it.

[roccodingo]

Mate that is way worse than you can imagine, sorry for sounding like a downer.
I have just spent the better part of 4 months repairing a 76 ( aussie assembled) Mk1 for rust, just the body has been a year long project going way more serious the last 4 months.

Your pic shows a perforation hole as you have circled, ehat is more alarming is the panel below has a vertical crack leading towards that hole.



The car I have been doing has had the whole floor asembly, roof, scuttle, left rear quarter, rear valance, front valence,
both side drip rails , inner left and inner right patches ( large) bulkhead and raintray repairs.




Biggest problem is these are now approaching 40 years old, aussie built seems to have very little factory rust preventative treatment then the young guys stick rock hard coil overs and lower the cars ( yeah, looks cool ) which imparts way more stress to the bodyshell which is in a deteriorating state.

Advice, if your going to keep it then fix it, I think Anton's bodywork alone would be in the $15K region if it were being done at a shop + paint... As Stanton and some of the others have said, lift all the carpets and mating, inspect closely around the floor of the A pillar area and inner guards, base of A pillar at the windscreen, both rear valence corners under the tailights, sills and bulkhead ( firewall )

To keep these old rockets on the road, patching with fibreglass and other backward repairs will just end up a disaster.

[roccodingo]

BTW, this car was originally bought off Ebay as a rust free Mk1, prob is the major holes had been patched over with fibreglass, and bog on top of aluminium cans.... paint job "looked " ok....

[elcono]

balls

BTW, this car was originally bought off Ebay as a rust free Mk1, prob is the major holes had been patched over with fibreglass, and bog on top of aluminium cans.... paint job "looked " ok....

Hi

Did you physically view the car? Or was this communicated to you via the seller?

Any idea where abouts the major holes had been fudged?

Gona yank up all the carpets today and have a bit of a better look. It was a large punt given the cost.......

Appreciate the honesty very much

[roccodingo]

Hi

Did you physically view the car? Or was this communicated to you via the seller?

Any idea where abouts the major holes had been fudged?

Gona yank up all the carpets today and have a bit of a better look. It was a large punt given the cost.......

Appreciate the honesty very much

Car is not mine, i am doing some of the work and offering knowledge and hands on skills to the owner.

Has been in his possesion 3 or 4 years now.

Mainly floor area at base of A pillars,the bulkhead behind the fuse box wasnt attached metalically to the inner guard area at all, just one long fibreglass patch that had separated away letting the whole assembly flex. Left rear quarter had been a weld over repair some time way back in the cars history, around tail lights was pretty crap, thats where we found filler over solo drink cans, Roof and drip rails were full of bog hiding junk weld hence we made new drip rails and sourced a replacement roof.
Paint job looked ok a few years ago, however there had been a lot of shrinking paint that cracks exposing the body metal underneath to water. Along the trim grooves this was particularly bad.

All you can do is really check it out initially. Your car looks to have original paint so thats a good start, nothing like a "new" paint job to mask all the rot.

[elcono]

ongoing.....





This is after ripping up the carpet and the sound deadening (there was also a load of stuff that came off which was like brittle tiles?

I basically went to work on the corners with a drill with a circular wire brush. I have only checked passenger footweel front right and front left which have a few holes. To be honest for peace of mind, and for what I have already found I think i might just weld in a new floor as opposed to patch it multiple times

The lower arch doesn't seem too bad. What looked like a crack turned out to be a repair that had been welded in once everything had been wire brushed

On a separate note I have decided to keep the car, i am going to need a load of new skills to get it done but am quite looking forward to it

Car also seems to have a been an import from Europe, which I'm hoping had rust prevention?