2 stroke oil (2SO) as an additive to diesel fuel

[CardinalSin]

+1

Whitworths Marine have Sunbrite TC-W3 on special $22 for 3.8 litres (1 US gallon) - the stuff I use.

Good price. That's less than half the price I can get the Valvoline TC-W3 and only about a dollar for the average fill up.
I usually fill up after about 600km and add 1/3 of the km in ml's so 200ml, then fill her up so it's well blended.

[kaanage]

But those who do buy it do it for quieter running due to lower injector and pump noises, reduced smoke (including before and after results in emissions tests during annual vehicle inspections), cleaner injector nozzles and smoother running.

People should try before expressing opinions and coming up with conjecture and speculation - if it makes no difference or has adverse effects, then by all means post up your observations.

[Ryeman]

You have to ask yourself why the highly qualified industrial lubricant and fuel engineers don't know about 2so's benefits.
Could it be because of the potential downside over time or is it more of an emissions issue?

[kaanage]

Or it doesn't generate as much profit as a dedicated additive (which they can charge more for)? This is as valid a piece of speculation as yours.

Here's an experience from someone else on this forum

BTW: On Friday I put 50ml of the 10 year old Stihl / Castrol 2SO was sitting on the shelf at home & then added 1 litre of 50:1 premix because it was looking a bit stale. I figure thats about 1000:1 ratio in my petrol. I've thought nothing of it until this discussion.
Here's an interesting observation: Usually in the commute from home to where the motoraway starts (5km) I think I'm going well if the avg economy slips below 10L/100km. The last 2 days it's been below 9L/100km. So, 2 stroke fuel / better run of lights / less traffic overall / ideal air temperature (24c)? Who knows. It will be interesting to see how it goes long term.

[brad]

You have to ask yourself why the highly qualified industrial lubricant and fuel engineers don't know about 2so's benefits.
Could it be because of the potential downside over time or is it more of an emissions issue?

If you take the time to read the MSDSs for the various products you'll find many common ingredients (eg: hydrotreated light petroleum distillates; petroleum naptha) in 2SO and some of the diesel & petrol additives. Some of the minor ingredients (<1% volume) are different but the carrier fluid is similar / the same.

If I was a specialist in the field and 2SO was worth $12/L and diesel additive was $24/L and they both contained the same basic ingredients & did a similar job I wouldn't publicise it too much either.

Warning: slightly off topic: It's similar to when i had a Macintosh LC475 computer. You could change two surface mount resistors and change the clock speed from 25Mhz to the same 33Mhz clock as a more expensive model. Apple didn't tell anyone this because (obviously) they would buy the cheaper model & Apple would lose the fatter profit margin. Same as above, why would you market that 2 stroke fuel was a diesel additive for $12/L when you can add/remove some of the additive pack & sell it as Diesel Additive for $24/L???

[CardinalSin]

An important point in these discussions is that most of us have tried the various additives to test the claims on the container.
From my experience it's been largely a waste of money because nothing claimed seems to happen but you assume it must have been of some benefit because it said so on the label.
That's why 2SO stands out because, compared to the shelf additives that disappoint, the change was magical and it makes you want to share the experience. Especially when I have yet to find any negatives and it actually saves money.
I'll check that claim.
600km @ 6.3L/100km = 37.8L @ $1.50 per L = $56.70
600km @ 6.7L/100km = 40.2L @ $1.50 per L = $60.30
Saving $3.60
200ml of 2SO at $12 per L = $2.40 in bulk that would be $1.20 and there's another 3km from the extra 200ml of fuel too.
Net saving $1.20 to $2.40 + 200ml extra fuel = $1.39 to $2.59
Hopefully those calculations are correct.

[Ryeman]

To me, at least, I ask myself why the brands all have the same basic chemistry?
Why doesn't one 'break ranks' and add it to the basic stock supply and market it as a 'breakthrough'?
Is 2so used as a diesel additive in Europe frinstance?
I'm not being argumentative just trying to 'try' all the facts. (cos I could be tempted when it's out of warranty)

[brad]

To me, at least, I ask myself why the brands all have the same basic chemistry?
Why doesn't one 'break ranks' and add it to the basic stock supply and market it as a 'breakthrough'?
Is 2so used as a diesel additive in Europe frinstance?
I'm not being argumentative just trying to 'try' all the facts. (cos I could be tempted when it's out of warranty)

Because it would cause a momentary blip in sales but ultimately be self-defeating?

Have you ever worked in an industry that develops / sells products? Generally you'll have a low price / low profit product line, then a higher profit superior line.

Water is probably a good example. We can all get it out of a tap for about $2.30/ kL but the same thing in a bottle is 2.30/L. The people selling the bottled water aren't going to say it's just water that brad has dipped his arms in (I did that last Tuesday Sydney-siders - hope you like the taste) in so suddenly it's spring water or 100% pure rainwater or vitamin water with special powers.

Judging by your previous posts, you are very conservative with these things so I doubt using 2SO is for you (nothing wrong with that). I think you'd be overly worried.

[CardinalSin]

To me, at least, I ask myself why the brands all have the same basic chemistry?
Why doesn't one 'break ranks' and add it to the basic stock supply and market it as a 'breakthrough'?
Is 2so used as a diesel additive in Europe frinstance?
I'm not being argumentative just trying to 'try' all the facts. (cos I could be tempted when it's out of warranty)

It's used as a diesel additive all over the world and there are members of this forum that use it in their petrol engines for the same reasons, just a lower amount.
Just google something like "2 stroke oil in diesel engines" and read through the experiences of others. You might then decide to try it.
If it does only add benefits and there are no negatives how can it effect warranty? Any negatives expressed here have been pure speculation and in the real world, where people report their findings, they don't exist, at least not yet from my extensive reading.
Have a good google and if you find any negative experiences post them here.
The best the haters can manage and there are always haters, is to speculate on the negatives, rave about those that report no change and diagnose all positive results as being a figment of everyone's imagination because it doesn't match their speculation.

Anyway, have a read and perhaps then try it once when you fill up next time by adding 300ml just before the diesel goes in and see what you think. TC-W3 or JASO FC not fully synthetic. If you're worried about dobbers and I can understand that, please drop me a pm to let me know the results.

[Ryeman]

I'd love to see a 'double blind test' done on noise and economy frinstance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CardinalSin]

I'd love to see a 'double blind test' done on noise and economy frinstance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You can do the noise test by picking someone who rides with you and going on about the engine noise so they are aware of it. Maybe keep saying 'do you think I should have got the petrol? Does this sound noisy to you?' That way they are aware, then slip the 2SO in and say, 'Do you think this has changed and got louder or quieter?'
Many posts contain the comment that their wife or whoever mentioned the engine was quieter, it was that pronounced and they hadn't mentioned doing anything.

For the economy just compare over time with and without. If your driving style is the same you know the results are real, whatever they might be?

Unless you subscribe to a conspiracy theory, that thousands of people have decided to pretend 2SO gives benefits, it's reasonable to assume their comments are genuine. If their findings were negative or neutral then that's what they would have posted. They don't get paid or get any other benefit.

As Brad said, it may not be for you. You seem to be talking yourself out of it and that's fair enough.

[Ryeman]

Nah! Just a cynical GOM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Ryeman]

I suspect it is to do with NOX emissions as to why it's not a spectrum standard.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[kaanage]

You think the more complete combustion is due to the 2SO making the diesel burn hotter? Why is that?

As an aside, the moderators have asked us to limit discussion in this thread to findings and observations - your posts are very speculative.

[CardinalSin]

You think the more complete combustion is due to the 2SO making the diesel burn hotter? Why is that?

Those with an EGT gauge report much lower temperatures using 2SO, another indicator of the better combustion and cleaner exhaust.