Let the tinkering begin...

[benough]

hahahahah! hilarious

[Greg Roles]

I have to pay ol' eagle eye on that one. Toast, actually, Mr smartie pants.

So you guys think 2" hot and 2.5" cold inlet plumbing is enough? I'll let the cat out of the bag a bit in that the plan for the turbo is propane and a custom tune, so I expect it to be pushing a bit more, but sticking with the stock turbo. I plan to up the exhaust, at least on the bypass anyhow.

I guess you'd have to approximate the increase with gas and a chip. I'm happy to take some lag for now, so that the "next phase" isn't limited.

And oh yes, there's a stage three, don't you worry.... shutup polar....

[gregozedobe]

I think this thread should be renamed to "The tinkering continues.....(and gets more serious as time goes on)"

[Greg Roles]

Well for now it's still " Let's put in what I have..."

Received my draft 42 designs stuff today, and have put the temp sender down in the dedicated sump plug. Had to be careful with the wire, lots of hot items down that way, driveshafts too! Will no doubt give a more accurate reading, which I'll be monitoring closely. Am ready to boost the water cooling component of the oil cooler with the small MX radiator to drop the water temps a little just prior to the oil cooler, as it is cooled AFTER the entire engine block, before the radiator. Will be a minor difference, but I'm keen to do everything i can. I have a nice B&M tranny cooler to add into the oil circuit somewhere too, still nutting that one out.

Saw these babies on another thread here too, got some, and put them in tonight as well. Holy cow, they aren't air horn, poop your dacks loud, but they are sure a wack over stock. 118dbs, and an easy fit really. One at 300Hz, one at 500Hz, as opposed to the two stock 400Hz ones. They are about the size of a CD.



Very annoying and uncomfortable noise out front. I don't use my horn much at all, but this will be a treat in the rare times that I do!

[POLARBEAR666]

I wanted to share an idea that I have been researching.

If you mount a davies craig 12" thin fan in front of the aircon condensor and wire it so that it is on whenever the ignition is on, it should drastically reduce heat soak when your idling and sitting at the lights. Which should mean at least 5'c reduction for when you move off the line. In an autospeed article it made this difference vs sitting idling without it on!


It should also help move air into the engine bay and past the side of the engine and extract heat out the back.

Not quite like this.. but gives the idea.

[benno]

This may sound really dumb... but my other car is a '58 beetle and this new **** confuses me.

Where is the intercooler? I see the filter box... and the turbo... and then from beneath the engine a pipe mysteriously appears pushing air into the manifold... ?

[gregozedobe]

If you mount a davies craig 12" thin fan in front of the aircon condensor and wire it so that it is on whenever the ignition is on, it should drastically reduce heat soak when your idling and sitting at the lights. Which should mean at least 5'c reduction for when you move off the line. ....... It should also help move air into the engine bay and past the side of the engine and extract heat out the back.

I guess it depends on how much that reduction in heat is worth to you. At most lights you would only be there for 2-3 minutes ? If your coolant temp goes up your main radiator fans would come on automatically. Does your aircon fan come on all the time when the aircon is switched on ?

If you did install one it would be preferable to only have it running when you are stationary or at very low road speeds (once you are moving natural air flow will do the job for you without wearing out the motor or consuming electricity).

Eliminating extra (unwanted) heat is more of an issue if you are chasing that last small percentage of performance or economy in hot weather.

If you wanted some hard data to support your decision maybe you could design some testing procedures to see what is happening temp wise, and what affects that has. I'm thinking of things like :

Intially get a digital thermometer with multiple probes and monitor temps at different parts of the cooling system over a 10 minute idling period, then try putting a small 240V electric fan on and see what reductions you get.

Then if you want to see what affect heat has on power do a couple of dyno runs (WITHOUT intake temp correction), the second one after your engine has been stopped for half an hour or so (to cool down), then let it idle for 5 minutes before starting (but I think the main radiator fan will come on anyway after a while of idling in hot weather).

This way you will have empirical evidence of what actually happens, rather than working off a "sounds like a good idea in theory". I'll always back well designed empirical evidence over a good theory anytime, as if they disagree then it is usually a problem with our understanding (ie the theory).

Plus, will any benefit be outweighed by the additional weight ? We all know you love to follow the dictum of Colin Chapman (of Lotus fame) "Don't add power, add lightness ! "

Let us know how it goes.

[Golf Houso]

Saw these babies on another thread here too, got some, and put them in tonight as well. Holy cow, they aren't air horn, poop your dacks loud, but they are sure a wack over stock. 118dbs, and an easy fit really. One at 300Hz, one at 500Hz, as opposed to the two stock 400Hz ones. They are about the size of a CD.



Very annoying and uncomfortable noise out front. I don't use my horn much at all, but this will be a treat in the rare times that I do!

Oh dear god you got them... where and how much

[Greg Roles]

I wanted to share an idea that I have been researching.

If you mount a davies craig 12" thin fan in front of the aircon condensor and wire it so that it is on whenever the ignition is on, it should drastically reduce heat soak when your idling and sitting at the lights. Which should mean at least 5'c reduction for when you move off the line. In an autospeed article it made this difference vs sitting idling without it on!


It should also help move air into the engine bay and past the side of the engine and extract heat out the back.

Not quite like this.. but gives the idea.

It's a good idea for sure mate, but seems silly to add a third fan when ther's already two there. I'm only a hose away from adding my coffee pump intercooler spray, and will be having my electronic genius dad hook up a thermistor to switch the radiator fan on when heatsoak gets over a certain point. I'm planning on adding a 4 probe digital thermometer to my dash ( somewhere ) so I can get some baseline temps.

Also some bad news for you polar, according to my newly discovered Vag-com acceleration testing tonight my normally laden roof rack, tow bar, big stereo equipped manual TDI is pulling 7.5 to 100 and 15.7 quarters. I'm sure I can improve on this in coming days.

Puts me 0.6 off your stripped down effort, and I'm doing a change into third for the 100....look out buddy!

[gregozedobe]

This may sound really dumb... but my other car is a '58 beetle and this new **** confuses me.

Where is the intercooler? I see the filter box... and the turbo... and then from beneath the engine a pipe mysteriously appears pushing air into the manifold... ?

No dumb questions here, (only smart@ss answers sometimes).

If you have an intercooler it is placed somewhere after the turbo outlet, but before the inlet manifold. In VWs it usually looks like another radiator type thing in front of the engine, only with large air pipes in and out, not smaller fluid pipes.

If you want more info, I'm sure a search of this forum or wikipedia will show you many pictures and diagrams.

[Greg Roles]

Oh dear god you got them... where and how much

Fleabay from the Phillipines actually, about $70 delivered from memory. They are big suckers, and sounds like a normal horn on roids.

[Greg Roles]

I guess it depends on how much that reduction in heat is worth to you. At most lights you would only be there for 2-3 minutes ? If your coolant temp goes up your main radiator fans would come on automatically. Does your aircon fan come on all the time when the aircon is switched on ?

If you did install one it would be preferable to only have it running when you are stationary or at very low road speeds (once you are moving natural air flow will do the job for you without wearing out the motor or consuming electricity).

Eliminating extra (unwanted) heat is more of an issue if you are chasing that last small percentage of performance or economy in hot weather.

If you wanted some hard data to support your decision maybe you could design some testing procedures to see what is happening temp wise, and what affects that has. I'm thinking of things like :

Intially get a digital thermometer with multiple probes and monitor temps at different parts of the cooling system over a 10 minute idling period, then try putting a small 240V electric fan on and see what reductions you get.

Then if you want to see what affect heat has on power do a couple of dyno runs (WITHOUT intake temp correction), the second one after your engine has been stopped for half an hour or so (to cool down), then let it idle for 5 minutes before starting (but I think the main radiator fan will come on anyway after a while of idling in hot weather).

This way you will have empirical evidence of what actually happens, rather than working off a "sounds like a good idea in theory". I'll always back well designed empirical evidence over a good theory anytime, as if they disagree then it is usually a problem with our understanding (ie the theory).

Plus, will any benefit be outweighed by the additional weight ? We all know you love to follow the dictum of Colin Chapman (of Lotus fame) "Don't add power, add lightness ! "

Let us know how it goes.

Mr scientist huh? Well I have a nice 4 probe digital thermo about to go in for some base line tests.....and also now I'm actually starting to learn how to use my Vag com, I have a TON of data at my disposal. Lots of measuring coming up!

[Greg Roles]

No dumb questions here, (only smart@ss answers sometimes).

If you have an intercooler it is placed somewhere after the turbo outlet, but before the inlet manifold. In VWs it usually looks like another radiator type thing in front of the engine, only with large air pipes in and out, not smaller fluid pipes.

If you want more info, I'm sure a search of this forum or wikipedia will show you many pictures and diagrams.

Post 24 in this thread. It's between the black air con radiator, and the "normal" radiator.

[gregozedobe]

Mr scientist huh? Well I have a nice 4 probe digital thermo about to go in for some base line tests.....and also now I'm actually starting to learn how to use my Vag com, I have a TON of data at my disposal. Lots of measuring coming up!

Sounds good, and I don't think you'll be the type who needs to worry about "paralysis by analysis" (too much information confusing things leading to an inability to make a decision)

If you want more info, I'm sure a search of this forum or wikipedia will show you many pictures and diagrams.

{Page 3} Post 24 in this thread. It's between the black air con radiator, and the "normal" radiator.

See, didn't have to go too far at all

[Greg Roles]

You know me, drill first, ask questions later....

On that my oil is sitting at 180 deg F on cruising, climbing to 200 F if I'm up it at the sump. A much better location, I can see real time heat buildup and drop in the oil. That's 82 - 93 deg C in new speak.

I had planned to monitor real coolant temps with one of my digital therm channels, but I can get real time Vag com readings, so I'll do some monitoring in the traffic once I get my head around it properly.

I'm loving the acceleration data!! 7.5 and 15.7 at 118kph thus far...