DPF smoking

[GTREA]

One of my Trucks does this (2008 FSR700 Isuzu), it will smoke when burning off, noticeable at the lights, or especially noticeable if your standing beside the vehicle at the time as you would be dead.

Its just a blown seal between the regen unit itself and the exhaust, will fix next service

[Tuning Dynamics]

Good theory, and with these DPF's anything's possible, but brown smoke is fuel, white smoke it oil, and well, black soot is well, soot!

White smoke on dielses is also un-burnt diesel.

[DkN]

I don't know the reason but interestingly, after my DPF delete but before my regens were successfully turned off, under load obviously black soot comes out, but when the regen becomes active with the DPF light on, when stopped at the lights white smoke will seep out of the exhaust. This never comes under load but as I come to a stop, that is I'm on the brakes not the accelerator, that's when the white smoke comes.

Anyway a blown seal definitely sounds feasible, though I haven't even taken the effort to look at my DPF, it's just sitting in my shed.

[davidno64]

Hi all,

still having trouble with car. Seems likley the DPF has failed.
I did leave a long message but I seem to have lost it. So todays short message/update is.

Visited the Dealer. Very politley, they are playing the blame game. At the end of the month,
car is booked in. Today they would not give it a quick inpection or confimation of fault. Unless
I left the car with them which would cause me to be stranded. Instead they would look at it at
the end of the month.

This is also where the warrentie expires. Forgetting the other issues and timming of it all.
Essentially, the dealer claims" What did I expect, As you drove it after the CEL came on". This also
negates the fact they were advised of the situation and it was agreed to drive and monitor the
situation, untill the booking.

But a point is, it was not smoking at all. Not untill after the Dealer had fixed? the car. Faulty
sensor. But they did perform a DPF regen. This is the first and only DPF regen performed by
anyone or the car itself. I have been advised that the car had been performing micro-regens,
As sometime raised revs at idle to 1000 RPM, with no warning lights.

Although I'll probly keep this car and feel it's well engineered. I dont feel these cars are as
good as the Germans claim. Particulary in this area. I have had less trouble with older and
pommy cars. 2 German cars I have owned from new, have left me less than inpressed.

[Transporter]

Thanks for keeping us updated. I would be keeping the record of the emails with conversation with the dealer and also the communication with the head office. Make sure that they understand that you didn't have the problem with the car until they replaced the pressure differential sensor. They probably did forced regeneration and instead they should've replaced the DPF.

I hope it all goes well for you and they replace the DPF at no cost to you.

[davidno64]

OK,

Today I took the car back to VW. A few electrical gremlins to be looked at and more importaintly exhaust smoke!
Dropped the car in, no loaner, no lift home and I had to wait. She was booked in for 9;45 and I had to wait all day, till
they could work on it. Left Vw around 2:30

The electrical gremlins were erssentially nothing issues, some fixed and others not. But the smoke was a definate.
I saw them take the car on a few test drives with a car following to monitor the smoke. And smoke she did!

In a nutshell , the dealer told me all engine perameters were all OK. But the car was smoking, so they suspected the DPF. Technically
they could not prove the DPF was at fault. As all measurable perameters tested for, where met. But the car smokes!

They assumed also the DPF was at fault and allegidally called Head Office for confimation. They would not authorise the DPF to be replaced, firstly they could not prove the DPF was faulty as there was no error code or blockage and all was in spec?

Vw seemed to be looking for any excuse not to come good on the matter. Blaming me for my driving style and then trying to blame the fuel. The dealer did not show me an example of the fuel but said it was poor quality fuel.

When I got the car back, seems the fuel was drained or they were drinking it but no sample was showed. No test was done, exept visually inspecting the fuel. The only explination was its poor fuel. I did remind them, the fuel pump was replaced. They did not drain the fuel at that stage, but claimed the pump was burnt, coated in carbon. Which they also blamed the fuel. But no proper test had been carried out on the fuel itself.

So no definate answers, exept that the car does blow smoke. VW claimed that is normal for when these cars get a few KM's on them. Mine has now barely done 78000 Km. Rarely city miles. Usally paced suburban or country miles and no smoke, untill VW replaced the faulty DPF sensor. (Two weeks of driving, turned the chrome exhaust tips to matt black).

In the process of VW fault finding the issue. They have re-set the computer. Resetting the perameters to default and leaning out the fuel mixture. Now the car seems to have stopped smoking. I have not been able to confirm this yet but is definatly reduced. When I pick up my wife from work I will check this for smoke properly and report back. At the moment, the smoke is not too obvious.

With a bit of luck the situation is sorted. Which I will confirm. But during all this VW tryed to blame my driving style for the fault. Then they tryed to blame the fuels, without any real evidence. Does not sound too good, Does it?
Well wait there is more. The dealer, under advise of VW? Claim the the DPF is a consumable item and is not covered by Warrentie anyway!!!!! W.T.F.

Even an air filter, a consumable item has a warerentie (although limited). The tyres recently fitted, also have a warrentie (in fact a garenteed minimum millage). But VW are saying a major car component, an expensive car component has no cover. Absolut BULLS*#T,
a $5000.0 component has no warrentie! Very disapointed in VW, even to make such a statement.

I will see how we go with the smoke now. But I suspect VW knows it and I'm shure that the DPF has been damaged. If not the DPF's life has been significantly reduced. OH! VW, is this how you treat your customers.

Anyway, now its time to consider my options. If it still smokes, do I take the issue further? There is warrentie but there is also an implyed warrentie. This is leagally enforcable and is also proportional to the cost of the product. May-be a good time to consider an upgrade exhaust, etc.

[Greg Roles]

What a nightmare, but yes I am afraid the DPF has always been considered a consumable, for they know it will clog up eventually.

I'm also afraid your upgrade options are rather limited, you can delete the DPF with a tune to suit, but that's both highly illegal and no guarantee to fix the situation, in fact a DPF of any sort should be reducing the smoke! I have seen DPFs on eBay over in Europe area for several hundred delivered, but I guess it's obvious you want to try and find out what's causing this in the first place. If the DPF is showing normal parameters, that is the correct pressure before and after, then the one that is there is very likely fine, it's just so odd to be getting anything post DPF, it's a complete interference style filter.

I wonder if you have an oil leak somewhere such as a turbo seal, is the car using oil? Also wonder if a injector has gone or is playing up and over delivering fuel, is it thirsty?? Anything else odd apart from this friggen smoke nightmare???

[davidno64]

Well last night tested the car well. Today , also tested the car and at this point no smoke.

So to me, I suspect that, When the issue first appeared and that being a faulty sensor.
Eventually the car went into limp home mode. Obviously not good for car or the enviroment.

VW replaced this and thats when the smoke started. I guessing the car had learnt new
perameters of operation. For some reason after the fix, the car did not revert back to normal
operation? and VW did not pickup on it. Nor did they reset the ECU. So again I suspect, for
some reason the car was stuck in this mode of operation. But the car did revert back to full
power.

Retuning the car this time, VW reset the operationg peramentrs (leaning out the mix) and
now no smoke. I guessing this would have been detrimental to the DPF. Most certainly detrimental
to the enviroment. In fact I'm guessing during this time, the car would have been spewing out more
pollution that a car not fitted with a DPF.

Either way I,m quite discusted with VW. Even though VW may consider a DPF to be a
consumable item. They do have a Warrentie. VW are just being a bit ellusive and slightly dishonnest,
but thats my oppinion.

Currently I have considered other options and are speaking to Gavin. There are other options available
but as you say. They are limited.

(Things to consider, especially when you spend say $50,000.- on a new car. All the bulls*@t that
should not occour (but does). I probly shouild have bought a buzz box and restored a classic. Considering
EPA, still a classic probly puts out less pollution in entirity, rather that as a percentage.
Modern cars, tend to have larger engines to produce a given power. But as a percentage put out less
pollution only by the fact the larger engine pumps out more air in the exhaust. Thus only diluting the toxic
output as a percentage but not in total mass.)

[jazd]

untill VW replaced the faulty DPF sensor. (Two weeks of driving, turned the chrome exhaust tips to matt black).

I wonder if they did the "Coding II" thing you need to do after you replace that sensor.

If the DPF is showing normal parameters, that is the correct pressure before and after, then the one that is there is very likely fine

One would hope that VW actually measured these and interpreted them correctly. I know I wouldn't be trusting them to, I'd be hooking a VCDS cable up and looking myself.

Also wonder if a injector has gone or is playing up and over delivering fuel, is it thirsty??

If an injector is playing up they should be able to see that from the engine parameters. As above I'd be checking myself.

[MHAuto]

Well last night tested the car well. Today , also tested the car and at this point no smoke.

So to me, I suspect that, When the issue first appeared and that being a faulty sensor.
Eventually the car went into limp home mode. Obviously not good for car or the enviroment.

VW replaced this and thats when the smoke started. I guessing the car had learnt new
perameters of operation. For some reason after the fix, the car did not revert back to normal
operation? and VW did not pickup on it. Nor did they reset the ECU. So again I suspect, for
some reason the car was stuck in this mode of operation. But the car did revert back to full
power.

Retuning the car this time, VW reset the operationg peramentrs (leaning out the mix) and
now no smoke. I guessing this would have been detrimental to the DPF. Most certainly detrimental
to the enviroment. In fact I'm guessing during this time, the car would have been spewing out more
pollution that a car not fitted with a DPF.

Either way I,m quite discusted with VW. Even though VW may consider a DPF to be a
consumable item. They do have a Warrentie. VW are just being a bit ellusive and slightly dishonnest,
but thats my oppinion.

Currently I have considered other options and are speaking to Gavin. There are other options available
but as you say. They are limited.

(Things to consider, especially when you spend say $50,000.- on a new car. All the bulls*@t that
should not occour (but does). I probly shouild have bought a buzz box and restored a classic. Considering
EPA, still a classic probly puts out less pollution in entirity, rather that as a percentage.
Modern cars, tend to have larger engines to produce a given power. But as a percentage put out less
pollution only by the fact the larger engine pumps out more air in the exhaust. Thus only diluting the toxic
output as a percentage but not in total mass.)

How long between DPF light coming on and new sensor being fitted?? while the DPF light is on the car won't do it's regens while in limp mode, this can cause DPF to block up, If there was enough time between DPF light and Sensor replacment you might have accumulated enough "particulates", this may be what your seeing come out, VW should have done a forced re-gen after the sensor was fitted to clear out the DPF.

[jazd]

VW should have done a forced re-gen after the sensor was fitted to clear out the DPF.

Not a forced re-gen but a re-calibration thing needs to be done.

[h100vw]

Not a forced re-gen but a re-calibration thing needs to be done.

For the benefit of anyone reading this down the line, get jazd's label file off that thread too.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f153/vcds-label-file-gt-tdi-engine-bmn-125kw-170ps-62631.html#post714242

Diesel Particle Filter Emergency Regeneration - Ross-Tech Wiki

[jazd]

For the benefit of anyone reading this down the line, get jazd's label file off that thread too.

The latest version of VCDS now includes a label file for the BMN engine so it shouldn't be needed anymore. Discovered this last night.

[h100vw]

The latest version of VCDS now includes a label file for the BMN engine so it shouldn't be needed anymore. Discovered this last night.

Score!

[davidno64]

Ok, thought there was no smoke after the last work done. But the smoke is actually less.
Normal driving, no obvious smoke. From the drivers seat, no noticable smoke in the rear vision mirror.
But under hard accelaeration there is visable smoke, not noticable from the drivers seat unless at night
with headlights behind. Then it is quite noticable but not as bad as before.

It seems the problem has been reduced in an attempt of covering up the real issue. To me is seems VW
is just putting on a band-aid, untill the car runs out of warrentie. the car is almost at that point. So for
me, if this is how VW treat this issue, I most certainly had made the rite decision in not taking up offer
on the extended warrentie.

Currently the car seems heavier on fuel. Which does not make sence, if they leaned out the mixture to
reduce the smoke. Another supprising thing is that in the past VW always gave me a report on work
performed. Usally showing reported problem and remmidie. This time no report was given or offered.
I did ask for one before leaving the Dealership. The response was, we will send one in the mail. As at
the moment, they did not have the time to generate a report. This sounds very suspicious. It would not
suprise me if the report gets lost in the mail and I guess this gives time to conjure up a questionable
rather than an accurate report.

Anyway the car still smokes and "It's too young to smoke". But it has been improved. It also now feels
a little funny in the way it idles. I cannot put my fingure on it. It's smoothe, quiet(ish) and resnable on
power, fuel consumtion seems a little worse. Nothing I can realy pick, but!!!

Ill try to make some phone calls and pershue the matter. But I would not hold my breath. I expect VW
will continue on this path. Which is a shame, as always I intended keeping the same agent for servicing.
But maybe thats part of the problem, to buy new and keep the same Dealer for servicing, etc. This could
be good? or it could be bad!

I will keep all informed on the outcome. But I think I'll have to fix this issue myself. Which I have started
the ball rolling. A few performance parts have been ordered and a performance tune is being sorted. I expect
that at the very least I will have improved performance with no or minimal smoke. As apposed to VW's poor
attitude. But then a $5000.- pricetag for a DPF, they can dream.