DPF smoking

[Transporter]

Can you make the video of the smoke?

I could explain the heavier fuel consumption by, you testing for the smoke so you using the accelerator more.

As long as per the work they done and no paper work to you; I would call them that I'm going to pick it up and am on my way, so print it out please, be there in an hour.

The video posted here would be good.

[bluey]

Methinks one day a lawyer will have a go at VW Australia/Audi for not clearly specifying diesel products. They are happy to recommend a VW 507 oil. They don't warn people about a 51CZ (german abbrev)/ 51CN diesel. Such is specified in product brochures and owner's manuals. Yeti manual only goes as far as EN590 compliant diesel, and a mug punter would assume that Australian diesel would be EN590 compliant - good luck. EN590 specifies the same 51CN as the VW brochures. The only "out of the pump" diesel which meets a 51CN most of the time is BP Ultimate. Actually, BP says Ultimate diesel is minimum 50CN, typically 55-60CN. Caltex Vortex says (you have to email them to get the info) minimum of 46 and typically >50, which may nor may not get near the 51CN VW/EN590 specification. As they say, YMMV. At present I'm using standard or vortex + Morey's DSK, but will have to get a VCDS soon now that we have a DPF-equipped car.

Has anyone done an informal long-term study of DPF clogging on different grades of diesel????

[davidno64]

OK,
Now here's the update. The VW dealer do not want to know me,
thats by thair action anyway. Even another part ordered, under
warrentie has gone astray and not replaced and not even a follow
up call when I rang them in relation to the matter. Thats being a
torn leather boot on the DSG leaver.

Re: the smoke not fixed by VW and only polluting the atmosphere.
Contacted VW HO (Sydney), they looked up the vehicle details
and amongst the bull****, virtually laughed at me. Refusing any
claim. Consumer affairs has a different view of it, I,m waiting on the
paperwork and will forward on any details. Thats the importaint part
detail, and if VW have any mention in the VW manual, of the DPF
being a consumable item, etc.

Also I note that VW,still have not posted onto me a service report
of when the car went in last (as prommised).

Now I have spent a lot of money, fixing this issue up. Going for repair
of the problem and at the same time a performance upgrade. Thus
including an exhaust upgrade (Milltek non resonated cat back.) and
a Custom Code tune. All of this combined has stopped the smoke and
also increased the power dramatically.

A small issue with the headlights have now arrose. But during the re-flash,
there were issues with forcing a regen. Driving the car, monitoring
exhaust temp, etc. The car would not perform a regen, when instigated
from a Laptop.
I wonder if this was caused by VW's dodgey works, trying to cover up the
smoke?

Now, I have to consider my options with Consumer Affairs. But the car is now
a different beast. Initially the car was powerfull. But after the works,
the power increase, mostly the torque. Very deseptive, but it needs to be
experienced to be belived. Better sound in the exhaust, better responsivness,
better economy, etc. But in the wrong conditions, put your foot down flat, say
at 50 or 60 Km/hr and guess what. You get wheel spin. First few days were
agressive but now, the computer has self adapted, most powerfull and smooth.

Many thans to Gavin and co. but I wish I could say the same to VW.

[benough]

Under law though, if a warranty issue has been started before the warranty expiration date, then even if the issue hasn't been corrected after the warranty expiration date, then they are still obliged to correct it. That should be easy to enforce with the help of Consumer Affairs.

I think you'll be **** out of luck trying to argue the DPF not being a consumable item. Also modifying the car with a flash isn't going to do you any favours either, considering if they want evidence of the car smoking.

[Diesel_vert]

Methinks one day a lawyer will have a go at VW Australia/Audi for not clearly specifying diesel products. They are happy to recommend a VW 507 oil. They don't warn people about a 51CZ (german abbrev)/ 51CN diesel. Such is specified in product brochures and owner's manuals. Yeti manual only goes as far as EN590 compliant diesel, and a mug punter would assume that Australian diesel would be EN590 compliant - good luck. EN590 specifies the same 51CN as the VW brochures. The only "out of the pump" diesel which meets a 51CN most of the time is BP Ultimate. Actually, BP says Ultimate diesel is minimum 50CN, typically 55-60CN. Caltex Vortex says (you have to email them to get the info) minimum of 46 and typically >50, which may nor may not get near the 51CN VW/EN590 specification. As they say, YMMV. At present I'm using standard or vortex + Morey's DSK, but will have to get a VCDS soon now that we have a DPF-equipped car.

The effect of cetane number or cetane index on PM emissions is not linear, and does not have a significant impact on PM emissions - at least for any engine modern enough to be fitted with a DPF.

Has anyone done an informal long-term study of DPF clogging on different grades of diesel????

Sulphur content has by far the most significant impact on PM emissions, with one study showing that as little as 30 ppm reduced the effectiveness of a DPF by more than 70% (Australian and European diesel has a limit of 10 ppm, so it's a non-issue).

I'm of the opinion that fuel is not a significant contributing factor to his car's woes.

[bluey]

Nobody has mentioned the (perhaps unlikely) scenario that the dpf core has mechanically failed....

Don't know why it is "unlikely". How else can smoke get through the ceramic??

Our previous Mazda Premacy had a mechanical failure of the ceramic catalytic converter + wads of metal mesh presumably designed to stop the ceramic going anywhere if it did fail. Caused intermittent run problems for ages and clogged 2 mufflers on an intermittent basis. No mention of that specific problem I could find in any manual or on the net related to the vehicle.

Surely the simple fix is to delete the DPF and see what happens.

[davidno64]

Searched and searced the manual supplyed with the car, new.
There are about 3 pages with content relating to the DPF and warning lights.
There is proveable history of smoke, as that is why the car was returned to
VW on a few occasions. In regard to the DPF being a consumable item. There
is no mention of that in the VW manuals. But based on that argument, even
an automatic transmition could be considered a consumable.
In fact any item that wears. The manual does say when these warning lights
show. To drive the car, as outlined to force a regen. If it does not clear, to take
to to a qualifyed agent. Otherwise the lifecycle of the DPF may be reduced. No
urgency is implyed.
(Where as, in regard to brake pad wear/light. The car is to be driven immidiatly
to a qualifyed agent)

There is no argument of the condition. The item to consider is, if it's of a consumable nature. Or if my driving style, etc was a cause of the problem. Mostly my car does suburban or interstate miles. 4 times only to the city since new. Driving style is not likley but could be argued. But so could the suitability of this engine for a road car at all. Consider the fact of what is outline in the manual, as requirments to meet regeneration. Fuel type is also a possibility. But again VW do not specify a fuel type in the manual. At sale they do advise to use a good quality fuel.What is a good quality fuel? I used mostly, say 98% of the time, either BP or Caltex Vortex. I think I qualify for using good fuel.

But leading up to this issue and as outlined by a few other VAG users. The PD170 motor is known for this issue and particulary some had the same fault(s) appear after warrentee replacment of the fuel pump. As I did. I cannot get it out of my head. But I think the fuel pump issue is related. For ages I had low and intermitant power. Finally the fuel pump was identifyed and replaced. This was after the
75000 Km service. The fuel pump was reported to low on preasure and carboned up. Apparently, fuel being retured to the tank gets heated in the process, thus allegidly carbonising the fuel. I was advised of simlar issue with a Jetta. All was well for a short time, then errors. Cause of these errors were the differential preasure sensor for the DPF. This was replaced and was the start of the smoke. VW then played around with the tune to reduce smoke. But smoke was still there.

Adding to this, it appears at the time of replacing the sensor, there was no calibrations done. Possibly why it started smoking. On return then VW recalibrated the ECU, reducing fuel delivery? With the work I then done. When the ECU was Flashed with the new code. The car would not regenerate correctly. So I question what Vw done. But I hope that Custom Code will identify ant=y funnys in the original code.

Under law though, if a warranty issue has been started before the warranty expiration date, then even if the issue hasn't been corrected after the warranty expiration date, then they are still obliged to correct it. That should be easy to enforce with the help of Consumer Affairs.

I think you'll be **** out of luck trying to argue the DPF not being a consumable item. Also modifying the car with a flash isn't going to do you any favours either, considering if they want evidence of the car smoking.

[davidno64]

Ok,

sine replacing the exhaust and getting the tune. Everything is fine.
Car performs better, car gives better fuel economey and less smoke.
There is some smoke present in the exhaust, as evident by the exhaust
tips but significantly there is less smoke. No noticable smoke from inside,
the drivers view. Whereas before it was severe.

So in a nutshell, a failed DPF is worse than well!!! nothing. This car was
pumping out more smoke/pollution than non equiped DPF cars. So if these
fail so badly (especially when price is a relivent factor). Then either these
cars should have been banned under pollution laws (due to poor durablity
of DPF) or even better have more realistic laws. That including forcing large
companys to cover items in warrentie. After all VW give a 3 year warrentie.
No mention of a reduced warrentie on consumable items, more a mention
that the DPF is a consumable item.

To your average JOE Public. What would they know exept to get ripped off
by the Stealerships and parent company.
I have ran this past consumer affairs. Too hot a potato for them to help.
They sujest common law or small claims tribunal. But then hey this is the
Assie goverment, especially under the direction of Julia.

[bluey]

Saw a BMW X5 3L diesel last week puffing the copious white smoke at idle. Presume it a DPF-equipped model, so presumably post-2007. Apparently white smoke is unburnt diesel. So presumably the unburnt diesel (caused by the clogged DPF or engine trying to unclog DPF ) passes through the DPF happily.

There is no way the DPF is a "consumable" item. If so, it should be in the service manual as a regular check/replace item. It it is not in the regular schedule as check/replace, then there is no evidence it is "consumable".

To go to court/small claims, one would also have to argue along the faulty or not fit for purpose lines. Can't understand why the DPF is so dear here and so cheap overseas/ebay, so one could also argue serious price gouging. I still think it is a fuel problem and the manufacturer should be chastised for releasing a a car on the market where the available diesel doesn't meet manufacturer standards.

We will see what happens in the US with the HPFP failure case before the NTSB. Low lubricity of the US fuel is likely a significant factor. Same issue in terms of manufacturer releasing a vehicle that can't run on locally available fuel.

Perhaps the mods can run a sticky thread so owners with DPF failures can get together to mount a class action.

[Transporter]

Perhaps the mods can run a sticky thread so owners with DPF failures can get together to mount a class action.

IMO, it's better when someone who has the vehicle with that problem or knows a lot about the issues, is determent to do something about it, opens a new thread (see the examples in this section). I will stick it up and keep my eye on it as well.

You have PM.

[bluey]

OK, I'll write a DPF failure post soon.

Found this on the TDI club site

VW's recommended inspection of the DPF data at 120k miles is likely a severe service scenario - like those NYC TDI taxis someone was selling on here a while back which were likely driven mostly in the city and ideling alot. I believe that the life of the DPF under "normal" service conditions is a lot more than the 120k miles.

So if VW only recommends inspecting DPF data at 120k miles (about 200,000km), clearly this is *not* a "consumable" item.

According to Bentley VW service manual (extract from TDIclub):

In the new paper Bentley Service Manual, there is nothing mentioned about the DPF for 2009 TDIs. However for the 2010 MY (the exact same engine) it says in the maintenance schedule:

"Diesel Particulate filter: Check ash loading after 120,000mi (180,000km). Replace if necessary. If not necessary, check every 10,000 mi (15,000km) until replacement becomes necessary. Thereafter change every 120,000mi (180,000km)." [emphasis mine]

The US warranty is stated in mail from a VW rep (from TDIclub):

The Federal Emissions Warranty on your car covers the Engine Control Module, On-Board Diagnostics II, and Catalytic Converter for eight years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, for manufacturing shortcomings in materials or workmanship from your in service date of September 30, 2008. The diesel particulate filter is also covered under this warranty.