103kW/125kw TDI PD Piezo Siemens injector failure thread

[Greg Roles]

From yet another thread full of failure, some hard facts at last!!!

A3 TDI PD injector loom issues - Audi Mag | VAGOC.co.uk

NEW improved loom 03G971033L @£82.28
injector 03G130073TX @£556

Old part numbers, just so you can cross reference, this info came from Audi Hatfield.
loom 03G971033D
injector 03G130073MX

The old loom: Part number suffix 'D' dropped on 01/04/2008 and changed to suffx 'L' according to ETKA.

[benough]

I'll have to check my invoice from my injectors and see if the part numbers match.

[poyta]

So if there's an improved loom out there why doesn't VW just do a recall to have them replaced and avoid any potential future issues? Surely the recent reported problems is hurting their reliability reputation?

[stickshift3000]

So if there's an improved loom out there why doesn't VW just do a recall to have them replaced and avoid any potential future issues? Surely the recent reported problems is hurting their reliability reputation?

I deal with recalls on a daily basis, but sadly, until there's a serious injury or the ACCC gets wind of the seriousness of the issue (hint) it's unlikely that a recall will be voluntarily be conducted by vw.

A recall wil hurt their rep way more than not conducting one... don't forget it hurts their bottom line even more, they are a business after all.

[Halcyon]

I've read most of this thread, but haven't seen the answer to this: do the TDI common rail motors have the same injectors (Siemens) that were giving trouble and if so do they still give trouble?

[kaanage]

Some previous posts

Greg, I thought you said that the CR injectors were OK, even if they use Piezo-Electric actuation, because the injector and loom aren't immersed in engine oil, which the PD injectors need to be.

Good point mate, but oil seems to be hardening the plastic insulation on the loom ( as you expect from long term oil immersion ) whereas the Pizeo component insulation seems to be more an internal design flaw. The parts theorised to fail thus far are totally sealed within insulation, and it would appear oil has no role in the actual injector failure from current facts available.

I'd think the new CR has better injectors, and the fact they have gone back to Bosh ( with all the spares ) is a good move, and that combined with a second generation DPF makes for a much improved diesel experience, but I'm still not sold on Pizeo technology until the failure mode is revealed.

[Greg Roles]

I'd say that, at this stage, common rail is fine. But so too, it took some time for the PD Pizeo injection problem to surface.....

In my opinion, at this stage, fuel quality is the biggest problem facing common rail owners, as any impurity can cause havoc to the fuel system and the strung out high pressure fuel pump that is dying left and right in the USA at present. Haven't heard too much about it in the Euro/Aust versions though, and if you have a CR, I'd be quite confident it's all fine, and run decent fuel all the time.

[kaanage]

I still think that the piston design in the CR HPFP is flawed and only operates reliably when all the components are in perfect condition so some extra lubrication in the fuel is a good idea.

But only time will tell if the piezo electric setup is more reliable in the CR setup vs the late PD one.

[neromonk]

2007 Passat TDI 103kW had 4 injectors replaced with model PPD 1.1

My Passat 2.0 TDI 103kW wagon is a 2007 model, purchased new in Feb 2007.
It had been getting a little bit sluggish in starting up over the past few months which I had put down to a weakening battery - after all it was over 4 years old.
In late April 2011, the car engine cut out and the car came to a stop as we were approaching traffic lights, fortunately in the left hand lane, but unfortunately on a fairly busy Sydney road.
The engine would not start or even turn over and VW Assist sent the NRMA man to jumper the battery. That didn't work and so we ended up being towed to the dealer.

The dealer diagnosed two faulty injectors and, after discussion with VW Australia (so I am told) and further discussion with the extended warranty people, went ahead and replaced all 4 fuel injectors and the harness.
The total bill for the 4 injectors, harness, 8 bolts, labour and GST came to $4,464.70.
I was without the car for 1 week (including 1 day public holiday).
I took the opportunity to get a new battery fitted at the same time, just to make sure I didn't get stranded again. The car is now going fine.

The service advisor said that VW Australia had advised that all 4 injectors had to be replaced together and initially the extended warranty people had resisted to approve that until shown the appropriate documentation. (I wish I had gotten a copy of that now.)

I checked in my copy of VW Self-study Programme 352 "Unit Injectors with Piezo Valves", available from erWin for a price, or these days I believe there are copies floating around on the internet.

The section titled Variations or piezo-type unit injector Technical status 03/2005 says...
"There are two versions of the piezo-type unit injector, the first model (PPD 1.0) and the model described in this self-study programme (PPD 1.1). The first version is already being used in the 2.0l, 103kW, 4V TDI engine for the Passat from model year 2006 and will be gradually replaced by the latest version (PPD 1.1). These two types can ony be distinguished by the parts numbers stamped on them and are not interchangeable. If a combination of the two is fitted, the engine will run poorly"

I am surmising that my injectors were originally the 1.0 version and the new ones going in would obviously be 1.1. This is why all 4 had to be replaced.
The part number for the new injectors fitted to my car is VW03G130073SX.

This brings up the question on why version 1.1 came into being. Was there a fault or a weakness in the design or manufacture of version 1.0? Obviously there was some reason to make the upgrade and it didn't change the fuel consumption or engine power output or any other specifications that I am aware of. Certainly it didn't result in cost reduction. That leaves reliability as highly likely to be the reason.

Therefore, if TDI engines have been manufactured and sold with a component that is likely to fail and leave the car unable to move at some indeterminate random time, surely that is a safety concern (it is in Sydney traffic, that's for sure). Should there be a recall to change out the unreliable injectors before they fail and cause problems? Or should there be some other exchange arrangements that doesn't rely on negotiations with the extended warranty provider or (for those without warranty) presenting the owner with a large bill to replace what was a known faulty part?

The trauma of being stuck in traffic with an immobile car for a couple of hours and then being without the car for a week was bad enough. But it could have been a lot worse!

[benough]

From yet another thread full of failure, some hard facts at last!!!

A3 TDI PD injector loom issues - Audi Mag | VAGOC.co.uk

NEW improved loom 03G971033L @£82.28
injector 03G130073TX @£556

Old part numbers, just so you can cross reference, this info came from Audi Hatfield.
loom 03G971033D
injector 03G130073MX

The old loom: Part number suffix 'D' dropped on 01/04/2008 and changed to suffx 'L' according to ETKA.

Just checked my invoice and I have all the new revised part numbers. Phew!

[Greg Roles]

...one of which has just failed after being replaced in a UK guys Audi.

THAT will be bad if the revised parts start falling over as well. Hopefully this is a one off.....

[benough]

Don't tell me that!

[Greg Roles]

None of us want to hear it mate!

EDIT: False alarm, turns out the second failure of the same injector in the Audi in question was a factory reconditioned "old" one.

Still is worth asking the question if you are getting injectors replaced, are they the newer "TX" or a reco old one???

[kaanage]

NEW improved loom 03G971033L @£82.28
injector 03G130073TX @£556

Old part numbers, just so you can cross reference, this info came from Audi Hatfield.
loom 03G971033D
injector 03G130073MX

The old loom: Part number suffix 'D' dropped on 01/04/2008 and changed to suffx 'L' according to ETKA.

My Passat 2.0 TDI 103kW wagon is a 2007 model,

The part number for the new injectors fitted to my car is VW03G130073SX.

The similarity between the part numbers for the 125 and 103 PD TDi's injectors is interestering.
And the failure of 103's in the same manner is a BIG concern given the larger number of these cars (although this + the smaller reported number of failures could mean that they are much more reliable and neromonk is just unlucky)

Certainly it didn't result in cost reduction.

I wouldn't be so certain of that. Siemens just might not pass any on the cost savings to VAG.

[Quantum]

My Passat 2.0 TDI 103kW wagon is a 2007 model, purchased new in Feb 2007.
....
The section titled Variations or piezo-type unit injector Technical status 03/2005 says...
"There are two versions of the piezo-type unit injector, the first model (PPD 1.0) and the model described in this self-study programme (PPD 1.1). The first version is already being used in the 2.0l, 103kW, 4V TDI engine for the Passat from model year 2006 and will be gradually replaced by the latest version (PPD 1.1). These two types can ony be distinguished by the parts numbers stamped on them and are not interchangeable. If a combination of the two is fitted, the engine will run poorly"

I am surmising that my injectors were originally the 1.0 version and the new ones going in would obviously be 1.1. This is why all 4 had to be replaced.
The part number for the new injectors fitted to my car is VW03G130073SX.

...one of which has just failed after being replaced in a UK guys Audi.

THAT will be bad if the revised parts start falling over as well. Hopefully this is a one off.....

Given they are failing in vehicles built in late 2007 and they aren't replacing all four then it would appear that PPD 1.1 injectors are also faulty.

BTW, I see paulfs has had some joy with SEAT: Leon FR TDi Injector problem [Archive] - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum