103kW/125kw TDI PD Piezo Siemens injector failure thread

[jazd]

How can you tell if your car is a PD or a CR mine was built in November 2008 with Australian compliance stamped 12 Febuary 2009

Mk6 GTD is CR. Mk5 GT TDI has the issue. Unless you are talking about jettas/passats in which case I'm not sure.

[stormshark]

There is no point denying because if you plug in VCDS my ECU number reads CUSTOM CODE. I could have flashed back to stock but then more DTCs will be generated and it will be obvious, and I didn't want to clear the codes.

They gave me VWs number as it is VW who is refusing the goodwill. I called VW, their attitude is they don't want to deal with it. I thought they would be more sensible, since they clearly know how widespread the injector issue is.

I'm faced with the same, VW replaced Injectors loom etc, but refused to pay for tow etc $550(i'm in the provinces). Referred me back to my extended warranty etc (Allianz) who rightly refused to pay for the Tow. Have written a second letter to VW Aust requesting goodwill however pointing out the possible Real"cost" should the failure of the injectors on the Hghway have panned out differently. i.e Major accident. Anyone i've spoken to says if your offered half take it, however i am disinclined to do so on principle, and am pretty Savvy at Media generation,- i'm just hoping i don't need it and common sense prevails with reasonableness.

[Transporter]

I'm faced with the same, VW replaced Injectors loom etc, but refused to pay for tow etc $550(i'm in the provinces). Referred me back to my extended warranty etc (Allianz) who rightly refused to pay for the Tow. Have written a second letter to VW Aust requesting goodwill however pointing out the possible Real"cost" should the failure of the injectors on the Hghway have panned out differently. i.e Major accident. Anyone i've spoken to says if your offered half take it, however i am disinclined to do so on principle, and am pretty Savvy at Media generation,- i'm just hoping i don't need it and common sense prevails with reasonableness.

There were people with tuned engines who got their injectors replaced and didn’t pay for it. I think they took a different approach, maybe they stayed shut and didn’t get on their high horse when they took their car in. I'm not saying that you did, but I only guessing from your posts.

I’m not trying to defend the VW and their design of the injectors (not really the VW design anyway).

Just looking at your signature; Here are the facts that you will not be able to defend: The injectors in your tuned engine were operating outside of their parameters (the tune changed ON time or duty cycle, whatever you understand better, it means the same), and because of that they failed. I believe that VW will have the technical data of their part (injector), now it will be your turn to prove otherwise and for that you will need the real experts (even if you’re a lawyer), not just the internet or facebook gossips.

Of course you can threaten them with the media, but they could also sue you if the going gets tuff. That’s the beauty of the democracy, that you have the freedom of speech but also the responsibility.

[jazd]

I think they have already paid for the injectors.. Its just the tow hes chasing money for.

Honestly I'd just leave it, don't push it too much.

Does suck though that this should be a recall that you should be able to book in to get fixed rather than your car just dumping you in the middle of nowhere. Imagine if you had driven it to Perth etc.

[Transporter]

I agree, they should've recall them.

[poyta]

I agree, they should've recall them.

Didn't I hear that they are doing a recall ( or campaign as they prefer to call it ) in the UK? If thats the case then surely the same must apply here?

[stormshark]

I think they have already paid for the injectors.. Its just the tow hes chasing money for.

Honestly I'd just leave it, don't push it too much.

Does suck though that this should be a recall that you should be able to book in to get fixed rather than your car just dumping you in the middle of nowhere. Imagine if you had driven it to Perth etc.

Yes You are right, its the tow,and i was out in the provinces when it happened. I hear what transporter is saying, however if not a recall, just to have had these quietly done for each owner from a date, after which it became a service item, would have been the go. I had my dog and me only in the car,and whilst inconvenient was not dire, but if it was a family situation it would have been quite disconcerting as a minimum.

[Transporter]

I agree guys, if the VW would treat that issue and many others differently, that would be a good form of advertising too and they could actually benefit from it, rather than sending some of their customers away from VW. I know from my own experience with Chrysler/Jeep that I most likely will never buy a Chrysler product again.

[davidno64]

Being new to this injector failure problem. My car is still awaiting repair/diagnosis.
I had diagnosed the problem myself. narrowing it dowm to injector 2 failure. One pin shorting to ground (21 Ohm to be exact) Also a brittle wiring loom.
After issues I had with VW, with a DPF failure. I decided to effect repairy myself. So researching this issue, I had deturmined the upgraded parts needed and what was involved in the whole job. More research led me back to VW, to see if there were any recalls unknown to me. Also the specifics of VW's repair/upgrade.(I could effect repair/Upgrade sourcing the parts from U.K for about $1500 plus)

The VW workshop was very helpfull, taking into account the polotics of it all. In fact they talked me into contactiong VW Head -Office, re: Good Will.

My car is out of Warrentie, Although a related hickup was reported to my dealer at the time, but nothing found. Now no warrentie, at my expense, I have to tow the car to the new dealer. Pay them for the diagnosis and they will communicate to VWany findings.
VW have, in pricipal agreement to cover a poirtion of repairs once the fault is confirmed. Obviously they will take into account warrentie ran out in April/March. The car totally failed at 88,7?? Km and so on.

Vw is fully aware of these failings and at least they are showing good will (yet to be confirmed). But also Im shure they are aware of warrentie laws. There is the offered Warrentie but also an implyed warrentie. Example: A $20,000 car would receive a 1 year warrentie. So a $100,000 could be expected to have a 5 year warrentie. In actuall fact you would be entitle to somewhere between those extreemes. And I bet you all large companys including VW are aware of this.

[davidno64]

OK, some very good news. It is fixed, I had confirmed the failure to be #2 injector shorted and a wiring loom thats going brittle.
After some good avice from the Local dealer in Berwick. I contacted VW Head Office. Good Will and all that, saw me tow the car to the dealer, I also gave them the job to service the car, as it was almost due for the 90000 Km service.

I thought I would be waiting some time, but I received a call. The day after dropping the car in. It had been repaired, serviced and was ready to pick up. Only one day and all I payed for was the service. The car ran out of warrentie, about April but failed at 887?? Km.
They had replaced 4 injectors, injector bolts, wiring loom. All good, she is back and working. And all covered 100% under warrentie or VW's good will. This has now restored some of my faith in German cars.
(I wish I could say the same for my previous car, which also had injector failure (and while under warrentie). Being a Mercedes Diesel)

So I,m very happy. I was expecting to pay something. Obviously talking to the right people was of help. Knowing the facts and limited knollage of these motors. But very much good luck and impotantly Good Will from VW.

[poyta]

Excellent news, good to hear. Lets hope I get some of that good will if and when it happens to mine.

[Greg Roles]

Wow, sorry guys, have not been on the forums for several weeks, missed all this!

On the facebook page indicated earlier is a copy of the UK recall letter, and I do know that the dealers have a service bulletin on this injector issue, but they obviously choose to overlook it if they have any excuse such as a tune. That page was started as part of a worldwide effort to get the problem addressed, and in the UK where their consumer watchdog has teeth, it worked. As for our ACCC...well VW Aust response shows how well that works. But yes there is a tech bulletin out on it, at Audi too, and even the PD 3.0 TDI's were affected. If you have a 2006-2009 PD VAG TDI with Siemens ECU then you're affected.

New "X" suffix double o-ring injectors can be had from the UK for about $200 pounds, and I do need to look at getting a couple in both for myself and to offer as emergency stock. I HIGHLY recommend people consider getting the loom replaced with the upgraded one, I did mine myself using an Audi UK part which was quite complex and required a bit of rewiring, but now the VW one can be had pretty cheaply, and the insulation is FAR better. Mode of failure is still either the loom insulation cracking and shorting, or oil ingress into the pizeo stack and causing a similar short. The new revised injectors simply have dual o-rings on this portion instead of the former single o-ring. Once a short occurs via either method, the Siemens ECU canlt tell which injector is playing up so all are shut down, the Bosch ECU equipped cars monitor each individual injector, so if a problem occurs you can technically limp home on three cylinders, although I have heard of Bosch cars coming to a halt as well where they aren't supposed to from what knowledge I have.

My suggestion is either get extended warranty and leave your car untuned, keep the car and go nuts - swap out the loom and have an injector source on hand, or get rid of the car. It's a crappy design, and can and most likely will fail sooner or later. I've no doubt more frequent oil changes and keeping the acidity of your oil down helps prolong the life of the o-rings / insulation, but swapping the loom is quite easy, just the injector wire plugs are tricky given they are so brittle after oil immersion, easily broken.

I was at the Brisbane Audi centre the other day and had a big chat with their workshop manager, the current policy from Audi head office is the entire car warranty is void " bumper to bumper " once tuned, and there's no escaping that fact in these new recording everything ECU's. Illegal? Perhaps, but that's their new stance, wonder how long till VW try it on.....

[Greg Roles]

edit: there appears to be a facebook page on the injector issue here - is this started by Greg by any chance?

Fix the VW AUDI Skoda Seat Pd170 TDI Injector Failure | Facebook

Greg who?

[Umai Naa!!]

'X' suffix on the injector part number, well any VAG part number, means it's an exchange part.

As per the bulletin, which has been revised a few times now, there is a specific fault code to look for, to aide in quick diagnosis. Although, you are technically meant to take the rocker cover off, and test each injector by way of a resistance measurement.

Replacing them as per the bulletin, (which refers you to Elsa mostly) involves 8 new injector bolts, 4 replacement exchange injectors, a new harness (which I'm yet to confirm is an updated part) and 4 new tips on the rocker arms. Lash on the rocker arm tips needs to be set as well, which is annoyingly time-consuming, but necessary. It helps to have a second set of eyes for this part.

There are a few specialist tools required to do it, but the puller/slidehammer for the injectors and a dial indicator are the most crucial.

[vk]

So I took my car in for a service yesterday, and got a call saying that VW was doing a campaign for the injectors in my car (Golf GT TDI 200.
They said it was a free checkup, and if my injectors matched the model it was a free replacement.

Picked up car today and they have been replaced free of charge.

Pretty good considering they informed me about this, I thought I was fine with a later model 2008, but thankfully they told me!

v