Diesel dual mass flywheels

[Greg Roles]

As I'm doing my best to avoid work at this moment, here's a interesting piece on dual mass flywheels. All modern diesels have one, and I've learnt a lot by looking into it. Modifying the power will affect the longevity, and there's several you tube vidoes of flogged out TDI dual mass flywheels out there.
http://www.high-impact.net/transmiss...svsSolidFW.htm

Here's a great video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ

I've every intention of changing to a normal flywheel, even though it will feel harsher and put more load on the manual box. I wouldn't consider that with DSG though!

[gregozedobe]

DMFs are a common problem discussed on Briskoda, and remapped 1.9 TDIs seem to suffer the most. I suspect that constant low rev high amplitude vibrations are both what the DMF is supposed to reduce AND what destroys them. Yet another reason to keep the revs up slightly on your TDI (along with having fun and looking after the variable vanes in your turbo)

[Greg Roles]

I'd have to agree, surely the 2.0, being designed for a bigger, heavier golf would be upgraded somewhat. I'd guess the 125 has stiffer springs again. Still, it's a potential problem for the powerup route, but it would keep the tranny and uni's alive longer...

[Transporter]

Yeap,
Anyone doing a cheap external power upgrade like the power chip, the turbo, the exhaust, the intercooler and a like, better have a good reason for that.
The power increase on today’s engine is not like in the past. Today’s weight reduction trends don’t leave any excess of material on the engine components - they are only as strong as needed. The 2.0L TDI with 103kW and 125kW is good example – just 22kW up and different crankshaft, pistons, redesigned cylinder head, different head gasket and so on. VW did upgrade the internal components in 125kW engine for very good reason.

There is not such a thing like: chip it, remap and enjoy the car for long time. Many people who do power upgrade just keep the car for very short time and very often the next buyer pay the repair bill - unfair.

[gregozedobe]

I'd have to agree, surely the 2.0, being designed for a bigger, heavier golf would be upgraded somewhat. I'd guess the 125 has stiffer springs again. Still, it's a potential problem for the powerup route, but it would keep the tranny and uni's alive longer...

My impression was that the 1.9 causes more trouble because it vibrates and has more power surges more than the 2.0s, not because the 2.0 flywheel and clutch components are built stronger. Plus 1.9 owners tend to lug their motors at low revs (causing more vibration) to get the maximum possible distance from each molecule of diesel fuel, whereas 2.0 owners don't mind using a bit more revs to get a bit more power

[Buller_Scott]

hey guys,

i had a bit of a chat to Dean at volkspower who suggested that a chip/ remap would hardly stress the stock internals/ other components of a stock car. He cited his 2.0L remapped by Oettinger, and constantly being thrashed, but still not having any problems.

And on tdiclub, it seems to be common knowledge that a simple remap of the ecu is hardly enough to start making an otherwise stock car, start falling apart.

It makes sense, but so does what ive read on this page of this thread.

I keep the revs up on my pog, e.g. whereas i could cruise along a flat at say 1700rpm in one gear, i mostly opt to change down a gear and cruise along at 2200rpm. I also thrash it every now and then in order to keep the turbo vanes happy.

Are you guys saying that these modern vw diesels are so poorly engineered that a remapped car, with minimal gains when compared with other mods out there, will annihilate the car's drivetrain and other components? But then, what about guys on tdiclub with mk4 golf oilers that have run their stage one remaps for thousands and thousands of kilometers, over half a decade, with no problems?

[Transporter]

hey guys,

i had a bit of a chat to Dean at volkspower who suggested that a chip/ remap would hardly stress the stock internals/ other components of a stock car. He cited his 2.0L remapped by Oettinger, and constantly being thrashed, but still not having any problems.

And on tdiclub, it seems to be common knowledge that a simple remap of the ecu is hardly enough to start making an otherwise stock car, start falling apart.

It makes sense, but so does what ive read on this page of this thread.

I keep the revs up on my pog, e.g. whereas i could cruise along a flat at say 1700rpm in one gear, i mostly opt to change down a gear and cruise along at 2200rpm. I also thrash it every now and then in order to keep the turbo vanes happy.

Are you guys saying that these modern vw diesels are so poorly engineered that a remapped car, with minimal gains when compared with other mods out there, will annihilate the car's drivetrain and other components? But then, what about guys on tdiclub with mk4 golf oilers that have run their stage one remaps for thousands and thousands of kilometers, over half a decade, with no problems?

It will depend from how is driven, how is maintained and it will definitely be outlasted by not modified engine driven under the same conditions. More power you get from the same diesel engine - less km’s it will last.
I give you example:
The London taxi company use the same diesel engine like is found in Jeep Cherokee CRD made by VM Motori, but down tuned to some ridiculously low power output 75kW[edited] from 130kW (= max power for that 4cyl.diesel) for simple reasons – engine durability, fuel economy, low emissions.
That example has something similar with VW - that engine I mentioned is well-proven industrial engine used also in the boats for decades; VW 1.9TDI is also industrial engine and in industrial applications it has lower power output.
[edited]

http://motortorque.askaprice.com/news/auto-0610/new-british-built-taxi-world-launch.asp

The most of the energy from the fuel in the internal combustion engine is lost to the heat. More power=more heat and that alone is enough to shorten the engine's life if you do nothing about it and do just external modifications.

[Golf Loon]

I have replaced several dual mass flywheels with solids on petrol turbo and tdi cars, including my T4 TDI 2.5L.

I know which pieces you need for various VW cars and every one we have replaced has driven better and resulted in a happy owner.

Plus it costs thousands less than just replacing the dual mass.

[Greg Roles]

Well.....I know who I'll be talking too soon...thanks!

[Buller_Scott]

thanks for the replies guys!

when talking flywheels, does that= clutch components?

sorry for the spastic question.

[Buller_Scott]

scratch that. i think i know. cheers

[Greg Roles]

Scotty Scotty, Scotty...

[Buller_Scott]

once again a silly billy question.....

would an ecs stage 1 clutch kit with 20.5lbs flywheel (still have to confirm if it will fit the pog) help in this issue?

[singlemass]

I just had my dual mass flywheel changed to a single mass flywheel on my t5 1.9 tdi 77kw transporter with the axb 4 cyl engine. The difference in driving is that you get rid of the dmf shudder for which dmf's are famous. Good riddance. A fine vibration occurs now at rev range 1600-1800 which goes away at 2000 rpm - it comes on as you put you foot down, but does not occur if you drive conservatively and let the engine climb up in revs more slowly. You tend to move through the gears more quickly, tend to accelerate a bit more, as you get past the fine vibration. My dmf had the classic excessive play as seen on the youtube videos. It also was slipping badly, which was what made me decide to do the changeover. I got the conversion kit, containing smf, clutch plate, pressure plate, and thrust race, via a crowd in uk via eBay - the brand was Valeo. I couldn't find a kit in Australia. My pre-changeover research revealed that clutch specialists are changing dmfs to smfs every week in recent model commercial vehicles. When I asked them what do they do with the old dmfs,...."throw 'em in the f'ing bin - they are f'in useless". Looking at the dmf which was taken out, it looks like an overdesigned overcomponented, piece of fantasy.

[Greg Roles]

To be fair the DMF is designed to try and smooth out a diesels massive power stroke portion of the cycle, and in a typical passenger car most people wouldn't be happy with the vibration a normal clutch would cause. I think they are flawed, but I see what the engineers were trying to do. A DMF takes a hell of a lot of load off the crank, whereas a single clutch is loading it up a lot more. I'd get rid of mine too in your shoes though, who cares about a bit of vibration really?