Top Gear "test"

[Timbo]

There were two more obvious models to compare -- the two GT models. Would have been fairly close, in $ terms, I reckon.

I like both our cars -- they're both good drives but in different ways. And neither gives too much shock at the bowser

[Greg Roles]

[QUOTE=Sharkie;240352]Um .... Jamie

I get about 8l (city) average from 165kw/350NM@2500rmin so no torque advantage at all to a diesel ..... difference is I can rev to 7000rmin ...

and for the Golfs ....
GT TDI chipped = 143kw/380NM @ 2500rmin
GTI chipped = 188kw/411NM @ 2800rmin
GTI Pirelli chipped 229kw/435NM @ 2800rmin

[QUOTE]

Have to agree with Jaymz, I'm in the 6's all the time, and I don't drive for economy!

Also I'm afraid you've been mislead on the torque figures. Jaymz is beyond that for sure, and my stock GT TDI dynoed 357nm at the wheels, which is about 385nm at the crank! STOCK. Probably why I can upset WRX's and the like, which amazes the hell out of me.

Debate all you want, in the real world there's a lot less difference than any figures would predict, as benough has already noticed.

[Sharkie]

3 last things ....

Dyno figures for torque are not what they seem. There is a multiplication effect by the gearbox so a different formula need to be used to determine crank torque. Your 357NM atw is probably close to the 350NM quoted atf figure.

Diesels have a very narrow power/torque band. GT TDI (stock) makes max torque from 1750-2500rmin. GTI (stock) makes max torque from 1800-5000rmin !!!!! Obviously chipped vehicles changes the peaks and plato's slightly.

In the real world, in rolling runs, provided you can restrict speed to the range of say 3rd gear so the TDI does not have to change they will be very evenly matched. Include a gearchange and a longer run and the petrol turbo's would be gone not even to mention the mayhem from a standing start ....

And lastly .... .... as the motor manufacturers get braver with the reliability of their turbo petrol vehicles the playing field levels out even more. A4 2.0t now makes 350NM @ 1800rmin stock .... Mazda MPS makes 380NM stock etc etc etc.

[gldgti]

3 last things ....
Mazda MPS makes 380NM stock etc etc etc.

those thing's will only last you 100,000km before they crap out though.

[RhysQ]

those thing's will only last you 100,000km before they crap out though.

and where'd you hear that??

i always seem to hear this ridiculous comment pop up when a small factory car (generally a hatch) pumps out big numbers. i'm guessing its the p*ssed off V8 drivers starting these rumours to stop people buying them

i heard the same thing about the Astra Turbo and the XR5 Turbo....

[Jaymz]

Um .... Jamie

I get about 8l (city) average from 165kw/350NM@2500rmin so no torque advantage at all to a diesel ..... difference is I can rev to 7000rmin ...

and for the Golfs ....
GT TDI chipped = 143kw/380NM @ 2500rmin
GTI chipped = 188kw/411NM @ 2800rmin
GTI Pirelli chipped 229kw/435NM @ 2800rmin

Have to agree with Jaymz, I'm in the 6's all the time, and I don't drive for economy!

Also I'm afraid you've been mislead on the torque figures. Jaymz is beyond that for sure, and my stock GT TDI dynoed 357nm at the wheels, which is about 385nm at the crank! STOCK. Probably why I can upset WRX's and the like, which amazes the hell out of me.

Debate all you want, in the real world there's a lot less difference than any figures would predict, as benough has already noticed.

Ooh i like these debates Yep for sure way beyond those figures.
Just put a new custom map in mine from Superchips & has now been tuned for 150-155kw & 430-440Nm's.

Actually once the DPF is removed there are guys making 180kw out of these things. I have read torque figures of 460Nm's also.

3 last things ....

Dyno figures for torque are not what they seem. There is a multiplication effect by the gearbox so a different formula need to be used to determine crank torque. Your 357NM atw is probably close to the 350NM quoted atf figure.

Diesels have a very narrow power/torque band. GT TDI (stock) makes max torque from 1750-2500rmin. GTI (stock) makes max torque from 1800-5000rmin !!!!! Obviously chipped vehicles changes the peaks and plato's slightly.

Oh dear, you have been locked in a closet for the last 10 years haven't you. That is so far from the reality of new Euro diesels. Maybe in your old mans Cruiser from 10years ago

Here's some figures for ya:
Been working with Superchips for some time on a totally custom map & we took a little boost out from around 2000rpm from my 1st Superchips map to stop wheel spin but have added another .2bar across the top end of the rev range.
Power now drops off after 5000rpm where before dropped after 4500.
So with that said it now makes solid torque from, wait for it... 1500 through to 4500. How do you like them apples.
I can spin it happily to 5000 all day long and yes it does make power up to 5000 Will be coming to a dyno near you soon.

I get about 8l (city) average from 165kw/350NM@2500rmin so no torque advantage at all to a diesel ..... difference is I can rev to 7000rmin ...

You may be able to spin to 7000, but i can guaranty you won't be sitting on 8L/100. We can happily use all of our rev range and not fluctuate anywhere near as much as you will in that gas guzzler

I personally like something that revs out and delivers power all the way through and believe in each to their own...... but do yourself a favour and drive a modded GTI .... it will blow your mind.

Mine revs out too, and delivers power/torque all the way through and also believe in each to their own. Oh and one more thing, you should do yourself a favour and drive a modded GT TDI .... it will blow your mind

[Transporter]

Mine revs out too, and delivers power/torque all the way through and also believe in each to their own. Oh and one more thing, you should do yourself a favour and drive a modded GT TDI .... it will blow your mind[/QUOTE]

No, he wouldn't do that, he doesn't want to get disappointed that his petrol car obsession came to the end.

[Greg Roles]

...Actually once the DPF is removed there are guys making 180kw out of these things. I have read torque figures of 460Nm's also....

Who. when, where!??

[Logzy]

and for the Golfs ....
GT TDI chipped = 143kw/380NM @ 2500rmin
GTI chipped = 188kw/411NM @ 2800rmin
GTI Pirelli chipped 229kw/435NM @ 2800rmin

all 2.0 turbos ....... no low down benefit at all here for the TDIs...

Dont know where you got your figures from but completley incorrect.!!!

[gregozedobe]

Actually once the DPF is removed there are guys making 180kw out of these things. I have read torque figures of 460Nm's also.

Tell us more, especially the rev ranges they are getting these power and torque figures from (and maybe what sort of dyno too - we know not all dynos and dyno operators are equal )

Good to hear that some people are getting good torque at lower revs from their modded GT TDIs. The (standard) one I drove was very laggy and doughy until nearly 2,000rpm (especially compared with my 2.5 TDI). The new CR 2.0 TDI is supposed to have a much more even torque spread, (and rev better too).

And please, keep up the petrol vs TDI entertainment, I'm enjoying my popcorn

[Jaymz]

Who. when, where!??

Tell us more, especially the rev ranges they are getting these power and torque figures from (and maybe what sort of dyno too - we know not all dynos and dyno operators are equal )

Good to hear that some people are getting good torque at lower revs from their modded GT TDIs. The (standard) one I drove was very laggy and doughy until nearly 2,000rpm (especially compared with my 2.5 TDI). The new CR 2.0 TDI is supposed to have a much more even torque spread, (and rev better too).

And please, keep up the petrol vs TDI entertainment, I'm enjoying my popcorn

Guys in the early stages of my power quest i was glued to tdiclub for many late nights.
From their site i was directed all over the world, so trying to retrace my steps to find where those big numbers are.

Consensus said though, the turbo is indeed good for 240HP or 180kw in our money.
Here's a graph from landberg.dk http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9...tea20tdat7.jpg

This one still has the DPF, but you can see he is making 220HP (165kw) & 446Nm's. This is done on an engine dyno so you would think these figures are conclusive.

I'll try to find some more without DPF but if 165kw is done with a big restriction in the pipe, 180 shall not pose a problem without.

[gldgti]

Dont know where you got your figures from but completley incorrect.!!!

if you're going to say that, please post corrected figures. cheers

[gregozedobe]

Here's a graph from landberg.dk http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9...tea20tdat7.jpg

Thanks for that J, pretty impressive curves (once I got my reading glasses), good torque over a wide rev range (for a diesel

I wonder what it was like to drive in normal day to day driving (where you use partial accelerator a lot, not just WOT). Certainly gives you something to aim for.

[gtimk5]

This thread was to do with Top Gear australia and its gone so far off topic its not funny.
Thread closed and you guys can start another on the topic that you are talking about.