Hydrogen Injection

[motk]

I don't think anyone is making claims of perpetual motion here.....but there are ways to increase overall efficiency - it's tried and proven through LPG injection also.

Free energy def not - but increased burn efficiency is a given. It's being widely used throughout Nth America in some trucking fleets http://www.chechfi.ca/product_ltseries.htm- I doubt these guys would plunk down 14k a pop for the truck units if there was not some kind of return. The reading of one website does not close the book on H2 Injection. As for the other website (in your 2nd post)- it looks like a full on scam....if people believe that crap, then they have problems . It doesn't really have any bearing on legit companies producing quality H2 Units.

LPG injection is fine, there's good evidence that it works to increase combustion efficiency. However, you're not using engine power to magically syphon that out of the aether as the HHO nuts proclaim.

Hydrogen gas may or may not be useful, but the claim stands, and the physics back it up - you cannot retrieve more energy from the electrolysis than you will use performing it. To claim otherwise is to start arguing with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and to do that is to start wearing your underpants on your head and claim that Big Oil knows about Over-Unity devices, hahaha, but the illuminati keep it all hushed up, hee hee hee argle wargle bargle.

In case I'm being unclear let me state thus: There are no such thing as "legit H2 units". They cannot be anything but a scam, no matter how many fleet owners get suckered in by them.

Just say no to magical thinking. Demand hard science and hard data. Firepower should have been enough lesson for anyone.

EDIT: Clarifying a statement - also, please read the following from The Straight Dope for some further info.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2800/can-you-really-get-better-gas-mileage-using-your-alternator-to-make-browns-gas

[smithy010]

Hydrogen gas may or may not be useful, but the claim stands, and the physics back it up - you cannot retrieve more energy from the electrolysis than you will use performing it. To claim otherwise is to start arguing with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and to do that is to start wearing your underpants on your head and claim that Big Oil knows about Over-Unity devices, hahaha, but the illuminati keep it all hushed up, hee hee hee argle wargle bargle.

[/URL]

It may well be a scam. I don't know whether it is or it isn't, but one thing is for sure, motk's argument is also flawed.

It is not arguing with the 2nd law of thermodynamics at all, if you are simply increasing the burn efficiency of the thermodynamic cycle.

Put it this way. Say, the 10 amps drawn from the alternator uses an extra 1% of engine power.
If the result of this 1% increase in fuel consumption, allows you to gain 10% better burn efficiency, then you gain 9%.

It just means you are emitting less waste energy (as heat, noise and vibration).

And a reminder, that i'm a sceptic too.

[Greg Roles]

So what's stopping you? Go for it. You can come & spy on my plant and learn from my mistakes. I hate those oil companies so much since I started making Bio that I cry when I have to go and buy petrol for the mower! I think I will have to find a small diesel suitable for a mower.

Mate I appreciate the offer, and I know it's my future. I did a degree in Chemistry afterall!
The only things that are stopping me is a lack of knowledge, and a brand new diesel that I can't do without to earn my income. I'm currently considering buying a Mark 1 Golf oiler, and using it as my test mule.

Also need to hook up my EGR, temp gauge etc to the Mk V, so if and when I start playing, I can keep an eye on everything. Seems like a fuel flow meter would be a good idea too, if the fuel starving issues I am learning about in newer Diesels is for real.

Again, appreciate the offer, and don't worry, I've already marked out the bio diesel shed spot on the side of my house

[250 downunder]

"EGR"? Or did you mean "EGT"?
Whilst on the subject of temperatures, I run an F250 on B100 and have noted a 100 - 150 degree drop in exhaust gas temperature whilst hauling 2.5 tonnes. Also running a Mk5 2l. Golf on 20% Bio with no problems to date.

[Ivo]

It really is an interesting topic. It would be great if these products actually worked. I'm just not going spend $1000's on system like this one if it does not work. http://www.h2fuel-save.net.au/cms/index.php


In the end, "big oil" will do everything it can to stop/stall us getting alternative fuel systems as they want to keep making billions from us......bastids!

[DSGMAn]

Unfortunately there will always be scammers out there claiming this and that on the back of systems that actually do work and increase burn efficiency. It's the nature of greed - whenever something actually works - people will pray on victims to buy their products that look similar.

Anyway - I visited my brother yesterday at his secret labroratory to check on his progress......he now has real time data logging hooked up to the XR6 Ute - he showed me the readouts from the lcd, which logs days travelled/speed/hours of operation/fuel burned per 100. The readouts confirmed 6.7l/100 for a 4.0 6 cyl falcon engine (2006) model....which is impressive. I took a mate along also to check it out - he was blown away by the setup and the results. Also saw his Hilux diesel test mule running. Interestingly it blows no black smoke out the exhaust even on hard take off, as i witnessed from outside the car.....nice. No data logging hooked up to the Hilux yet...coming soon. Even if it got rid of all the soot my 06 TDI Golf puts out, i'd be happy - extra economy would just be a bonus!

[GoLfMan]

this is a really interesting topic and one i will be watching closely. Im a big supported of VIABLE alternate fuel sources and i love that your brother is getting such great results from such a big engine

[GoLfMan]

So what's stopping you? Go for it. You can come & spy on my plant and learn from my mistakes. I hate those oil companies so much since I started making Bio that I cry when I have to go and buy petrol for the mower! I think I will have to find a small diesel suitable for a mower.

Please feel free to take photos of the Bio Diesel process and do a write up, im sure there is more than adequate interest for you to do so!!!!

[gldgti]

this is indeed interesting. i strongly suggest you keep his secret laboratory secret too

got me thinking now about what i can do to my mk3

[Transporter]

To be safe I would do engine oil analysis before I started to use hydrogen injection and while using hydrogen injection. Diesel injection is different to petrol injection. Diesel injected at 2000 bar would have different effect on the engine than diesel injected at max pressure of 250bar as is the case of the old diesel injection system. Adding something to fuel mixture make up when fuel is injected under the pressure of 2000bar could have side effects.

Just my 2c.
MM

[DSGMAn]

To be safe I would do engine oil analysis before I started to use hydrogen injection and while using hydrogen injection. Diesel injection is different to petrol injection. Diesel injected at 2000 bar would have different effect on the engine than diesel injected at max pressure of 250bar as is the case of the old diesel injection system. Adding something to fuel mixture make up when fuel is injected under the pressure of 2000bar could have side effects.

Just my 2c.
MM

This could be true - Ill have to pick my brother's brain about possible side effects in a VW TDI. Modern diesel trucks are running on similar H2 injection systems, so ill have to do some research on whether anything detremental has happened so far as a result.