APR Adaptation

[noone]

I have had the APR tune for around a year now and was hoping someone might have some insight regarding the adaptation of the tune.

When the APR program is installed / switched on, the ECU goes through a process of optimizing. I don't know the details, but for me, this optimization means my car gets slower...

I have read a number of people on Tex saying the same thing, but with different vehicles.

So my question is, why does my car get slower with the adaptation, is this signaling an issue with the car and how do I keep the power that I have when I first turn on the tune?

[tinto]

Stop driving Miss Daisy.
It will adapt

[Guy_H]

how are you measuring the "power" ?

Also look at your fuel trim tables & if you have Vag Com, zero them & watch them over time & let us know where they end up.

Adaptation is not a "fixed" thing - iyts constantly moving!

[noone]

Thanks Guy.

The power is just from feel. I reset my tune (back to stock, then back to chipped) and the difference was obvious.

I'll have a look at the fuel trim. Cheers.

[Sharkie]

The ECU adapts to the driving style over time ... it does this in both stock modes and chipped modes ... resetting it to chipped mode means it goes back to set values (which is why you feel more power) and over time change to reflect the way the car is driven.

Drive it really hard for 25+mins and it will change up again ... problem is that doing that for 25+mins sustained is almost impossible....

So best result achieved by periodically resetting the ECU map ...

[noone]

Interesting Point Sharkie.

I did not reset my fuel trims, would this be done when the chip is activated? Current value is -0.8%.

Did a little run (in 2nd up a hill)

[Guy_H]

Clearing fault codes (even if there are none) or doing a throttle body alignment resets the trims!

[Guy_H]

Ross-Tech: VAG-COM: Fuel Trim Info

[noone]

I realigned the throttle body, no change to the fueling info (block 60?)

No major change with the throttle body alignment, well not immediately.

[JustCruisn]

Hey what is the point of the throttle body re-alignment ?
Is this something I should ask my mechanic to do at the next service ? Is is something that just needs doing over time ?

[noone]

Please correct me if I get this wrong:

The throttle body controls the incoming air flow to the engine. With our car being drive by wire, the throttle body can benefit from being cleaned after carbon buildup and can / should be realigned (vag-com function) after its cleaned, the battery is disconnected or major mods are done.

There is a misconception that you can realign the throttle body by turning the ignition on, but not starting the car. This came about as the car appears to make the same noises (throttle body opens and closes), but does not recalibrate.

Worth a try, seems to be more relevant to older Mk4 GTI's and A3/A4 Audi's (from my reading).

[h100vw]

AGU engines will adapt the TB if you turn them on but don't start it.

Gavin

[quozl]

Sorry mate but it won't

Read this thread and watch the video from Daemon on VWVortex with info from Uwe at Vagcom it explains exactly what happens and how doing the door open ignition on for 30 secs hop on one foot dance DOES NOT realign the throttle body, you need either Vagcom or an APR upgrade with the throttle body realignment option or a similar diagnostic tool.

Cheers Al

Daemon42 from this thread

VWvortex Forums: Throttle Body Alignment (TBA)

If a picture's worth a thousand words, then what's a video worth?

Ignition on + 30 seconds

http://thud.us/videos/car-av/TB-ign-on-divx.avi

Actual VAG-COM initiated throttle body alignment + 30 seconds

http://thud.us/videos/car-av/TB-align-divx.avi

And looking at the VAG-COM screen while doing the above

http://thud.us/videos/car-av/T...x.avi

Notice how fast the alignment is completed. (far right value
indicates when alignment is occuring, and when it's done).

When you first turn the key, the throttle goes to it's "on" mode
and closes waiting for the engine to start. That's the whine.
It whines *all* the time that the car is running. If you don't touch
the throttle for 30 seconds while the engine is not running,
it gives up and goes back to sleep *clunk*. The whine
and the clunk are not a throttle body alignment. If you get
back in the car and touch the gas pedal, it will start whining
again.

And just because I was under there with a video camera. Here's a video
clip showing how fast the throttle moves in response to the gas pedal.

http://thud.us/videos/car-av/T...x.avi

When I say "linear" in the video I mean that I'm moving the gas pedal
down at a constant linear rate. Notice that the throttle itself moves
non-linearly. It's slow at first, and very fast when nearly full open.
Also notice that it can go from full closed to full open in 1/10th of a
second.

As for the flapper valve. Here's how it operates normally when the
vaccum resevoir is depleted. (car's been sitting for a while)

http://thud.us/videos/car-av/f...x.avi

Activator moves slowly as the pump evacuates the resevoir and
only after the engine is started. (it does have it's own vacuum
pump. It just doesn't run it until the engine is running)

Here's how it operates when there's still some vacuum in
the resevoir when the car is started

http://thud.us/videos/car-av/f...x.avi

Flapper closes the moment you turn the key.

And just for giggles, here's what happens if you pull
the vacuum line off.

http://thud.us/videos/car-av/flapper-valve-leak-divx.avi

This'll run the vacuum pump forever (until it burns out).
[edit]Turns out, there is no vacuum pump. It draws vacuum from the EVAP
system somewhere, which is ultimately manifold vacuum. If your flapper
hose is off or leaking, it's causing a manifold vacuum leak.

ian

[noone]

Yeah, thats what I saw. Apparently the Vag-com guys are across this.

So with the ongoing adaptation, am I likely to experience this with all tunes? If I change to a tune that cant be turned on / off like the APR is, can you reset them in the same way?

I don't really understand why my car looses power over time, I sure don't baby it.

[Jmac]

Sorry mate but it won't

Read this thread and watch the video from Daemon on VWVortex with info from Uwe at Vagcom it explains exactly what happens and how doing the door open ignition on for 30 secs hop on one foot dance DOES NOT realign the throttle body, you need either Vagcom or an APR upgrade with the throttle body realignment option or a similar diagnostic tool.

Cheers Al

Totally agree here to align the throttle body you must do it with adaption on all the models, it wont be right to let it just set itself. Ive done a AEE polo today that has old technology like AGU and it wouldt behave till physically alignedwith the software, i wouldnt do it any other way anyway having said that. back to the original issue, you say you are losing power over time, im with Guy here how are you measuring your power? Are you watching a boost gauge or are you feeling its just getting down on power??? you ae on stage 1 right??? have you actually seen it getting down on power or is it just feel, gauges and requested and actual dont lie really , feel will. you might be itching to go to the next level mate. Im a firm believer on gauges, and of course what he ecu is requesting an the actual. Do a log on 115 for requested and actual, do 114 and you will see the duty cycle of N75 and like Guy says 030,031,032 to check your fuel trim.
Keen to hear more
Jmac