Has Anyone Used E10 in a 95 RON Engine

[Amalgam]

Hi All,

E10 95 RON has just been released in Perth.

My question is has anyone used it on their 95 RON TSI cars??

My parents have a Golf and would like to switch if it is safe as it is 2cpl cheaper than regular 91 RON ULP and 13 cpl cheaper than 95 RON.

Thanks

George

[vdubmotorworx]

Dont do it... TSI engines hate poor fuel.. its not worth saving that extra 2c. Even 95 / 98 RON fuel in Australia is poor at times and can cause issues. You might find that on the E10 mix fuel you wont save anyway as the car wont be running as well actually causing it to use more fuel than before and you might feel it running not so smooth whilst sat in the car. Stick to 95 at least. Remember to check the fuel filler flap and use only what it recommends on the sticker on there especially when the cars in warranty .VDUB.

[Ryan_R]

Have used 98-RON since before I owned my Golf. In my old Corolla (30L tank) I would get about 320kms per tank with normal 91RON and almost 400kms with 98, plus slightly better performance.

Agreed with the warning, never go below 95RON - the engine will suffer and VW will refuse to honour the warranty when they see the signs of cheap fuel.

[Diesel_vert]

There is nothing wrong with cheap fuel - I've yet to meet anyone who likes paying for fuel. Rather, it's a matter of using fuel that's suitable for the vehicle - using the correct fuel is generally the best way to minimise running costs.

You can only use regular unleaded (E10 or otherwise) if the sticker on the fuel flap states, '95/91 RON' or something to that effect.

If the stickers states, 'min. 95 RON' or '98/95 RON' or something to that effect, you must use premium unleaded (E10 or otherwise).

...

The European Standard for automotive petrol fuel ( EN 228 ) states a minimum RON of 95 and a minimum MON of 85.

In Australia, only premium unleaded (E10 or otherwise) is guaranteed to meet those two specifications. Regular unleaded has a minimum RON of 91 and a minimum MON of 81. Regular unleaded E10 has a typical RON of 93-95 and a typical MON of 81-83.

Premium unleaded is also a cleaner fuel because it has less sulphur.

Link to Australian fuel standards if you're really interested: Fuel Quality in Australia - Petrol Fuel Quality Standard

[Amalgam]

From Unleaded E10

What is Unleaded E10?

Unleaded E10 is a new higher octane (95) unleaded fuel enhanced with up to 10% ethanol (E10).



It seems to pass all the requirements of 95 RON and VW are E10 compatible.

My parents haven't used any yet and that is the reason for this post as E10 is new to Perth but has been available on the east coast for some time.

Thanks

[Diesel_vert]

For reasons I've already stated, I do not recommend using regular unleaded E10 in any vehicle that requires premium unleaded.

I will say this - it is possible for a Golf 1.4 TSI to run on regular unleaded E10 - but you asked if using regular unleaded E10 in such a car is safe. So the only safe recommendation I can make is to use premium unleaded or premium unleaded E10.

United Petroleum's 'Unleaded E10' would be classified as regular unleaded E10 fuel. It is not a premium unleaded or premium unleaded E10 fuel because it wouldn't meet the requirements (refer to the Australian fuel standards link in my previous post).

It would be fine if you were using your own car to experiment with regular unleaded E10 and being prepared to accept any potential consequences, but it's your parent's car and should something go wrong, I (nor you I imagine) would not want to be held responsible for giving out any advice contrary to that of the manufacturer.

Your call.

[Amalgam]

It would be fine if you were using your own car to experiment with regular unleaded E10 and being prepared to accept any potential consequences, but it's your parent's car and should something go wrong, I (nor you I imagine) would not want to be held responsible for giving out any advice contrary to that of the manufacturer.

Point taken. I have advised the parents to continue using standard PULP.

Thanks for the advice.

[brad]

I'd actually recommend they use 98ron

[Golf Loon]

I have cleaned out plenty of fuel systems where tight arses have tried to save a dollar. E10 eats the plastic lines and puts slurry into the filter and injectors. Doesn't work out cheaper when you factor in the repairs.

98 octane is the answer more bang for your buck. It costs $3 more at the pump and you go 50 ks further and car accelerates faster. Surely that's a no brainer.

If you want really cheap fuel buy an LPG ex taxi. If you want a perky fast well engineered car, buy a Vw and then put good fuel in it.

[wai]

The issue with E10 is to do with the combustion chemistry.

Firstly, Ethanol has something like 30% less calorific value than petrol. With a 10% blend, this immediately equates to a 3% loss of economy.

Next, the ethanol molecule contains oxygen. When it combusts, this oxygen is released and has the effect of leaning out the mixture. The effect is generally outside the scope of the ECU to adjust so you end up with an engine running lean. This sees high combustion temperatures and while better for unburnt HC and CO/CO2, it has the effect of almost tripling the NOx.

If you tune the engine for E10 and then cannot get E10, using straight petrol will see it run rich and emit even more pollutants.

The result is that you end up burning roughly 10% more E10 than petrol, so it completely negates the 10% substitution. You burn as much petrol as you would straight petrol, PLUS you burn 10% ethanol. This does not take into account the emissions from the growing, and husbandry of the crop and production of ethanol.

Then there are the chemical effects ethanol which result in corrosion, and the fact that ethanol is hygroscopic. All up, not a good idea.

While we are on bio-fuels, ever wonder how you get oil out of seed crops? After all, when you crush a seed you never see a drop of oil.

The fact is that to extract the oil, you crush the seed and then have to heat the "meal" to get the oil to flow. This sees you actually use as much (and more) energy to release the oil than you get from the resulting oil to produce bio-diesel. You then need various catalysts that have to be manufactured, and there are the waste by-products.

Bio-diesel is only viable when it is waste oil that is used. There is simply not enough waste oil to make any significant dent on fuel usage or emissions, and the energy balance is questionable.

[Diesel_vert]

Point taken. I have advised the parents to continue using standard PULP.

Thanks for the advice.

Generally, the best way to minimise overall running costs over the long term is to adhere to the manufacturer's requirements.

The manufacturer gives you a few options in regards to fuel choice, so your parents could try filling up with premium unleaded (95 RON) for a month, then fill up with super unleaded (98 RON) the next month, and so on. They can then calculate which fuel is better value.

The margin of error decreases the longer they perform the experiment.

put good fuel in it.

Good fuel is fuel that is suitable or compatible with the engine.

...

In regards to general upkeep, maintenance and servicing costs, going above and beyond the manufacturer's requirements does not necessarily equate to lower running costs. It will depend on how the operator uses their machinery and the conditions it is used in.

Ladies and gentlemen, start your calculators.

[Amalgam]

This E10 95 RON seems like a trap for the less well informed.

At face value, it appears to meet all of the manufacturers the requirements, yet there is the subtle difference of a RON enhanced ULP and true PULP.

Thanks for sharing the wisdom of the forum.

[Diesel_vert]

This E10 95 RON seems like a trap for the less well informed.

At face value, it appears to meet all of the manufacturers the requirements, yet there is the subtle difference of a RON enhanced ULP and true PULP.

Thanks for sharing the wisdom of the forum.

I think the vehicle manufacturers try not to overload the consumer with technical information, so they only state the minimum RON the vehicle requires. In reality though, it's a bit more complicated than that.

The major fuel companies like BP, Caltex, Mobil & Shell all advertise their regular unleaded E10 as 91 RON, even though the typical RON figure lies between 93-95.

If you ask the fuel companies, I bet they won't recommend using regular unleaded E10 for vehicles that require premium unleaded, because they know regular unleaded E10 has a MON (motor octane number) between 81-83. This is below the required standard for premium unleaded, which specifies a minimum MON of 85 - both here and in Europe - and is what the engineers base their decisions on when designing the vehicle.

United Petroleum though, advertise their 'Unleaded E10' product as having a RON of 95 - which may well be the case - but it's not a bona fide premium unleaded fuel, as strictly defined by European and Australian fuel standards. I think it's concerning that some fuel companies or retailers don't make this abundantly clear.


I have nothing against ethanol blended fuels in general - the only reason I don't recommend using regular unleaded E10 is because it has a MON figure below what is specified for vehicles that require premium unleaded.

[Sunny43.5]

I won,t go into tech details but I was told by someone in the fuel industry that there is at best minimum testing of fuel ron quality ie meeting standards and levels stated . He claimed only one company regularly tested the fuel others rarely did , this would explain why my T5 petrol van reacts to different companies fuel .If I run one companies fuel the van is fine then I fill from another company same RON and I get an engine warning light strange that one . The light goes out if filled from the other company again .

[Diesel_vert]

In the case of regular unleaded or regular unleaded E10, all they have to ensure is that the RON doesn't fall below 91, which is pretty easy because the ethanol content raises the RON by 2-4 points, and the MON by 1-2 points.

Fuel companies are by no means required to guarantee it will have a RON higher than 91. What they basically say is, "typically 93 or 94 RON, but always 91 RON or higher".

United Petroleum, however, goes a step further and actually states their 'Unleaded E10' fuel is 95 RON, but I don't see how they can guarantee that. It amounts to false advertising IMO.

And even if is guaranteed to have a RON of 95, it will only have a MON between 81-83, so it still isn't recommended for vehicles that require premium unleaded (especially turbocharged engines).