Fuel - diesel / petrol - RON - Aus / Euro???

[DutchAussie]

I have been retired from the oil industry since 2001 but may be able to help people with questions about fuel, etc. I worked 45 years as a Refinery Technician, Training Co-ordinator and Shift Superintendent.
I worked as a Production Planner for Methanex (New Zealand Methanol Plant) and have done a number of other jobs in the industry.

I will set up a page for Fuels & Lubricants on my Home Site to help.

Fire away and I will try and answer your questions. It will keep the old brain ticking over.

Regards,

Arie

[DutchAussie]

i also find different cars react better to different blends.

my alfa got an extra 100k's a tank on mobil synergy 8000, where as my golf gets 50 a tank more on bp 98.

I will probably get shot for this.

Petrol is made from a number of blendstocks and the blends vary during the year and from what crude oil the blendstocks are made.

As far as performance is concerned there should be little difference between brands.

There are a number of refineries in Australia and it doesn't make a great deal of sense for a company in Victoria to ship their products to Queensland if there is a refinery there. So they exchange products. Sometimes they will add additives at there own refinery but often it is the same stuff.

Blending of fuels and oils is a complicated process because of the variables involved.

Each refinery uses its own process and will have their own blendstocks.

But remember the product has to meet the standards.

RON stands for Research Octane Number and is a measure as to how the engine will perform.

If your engine is designed for 91 RON, filling it with 95 or 98 RON is not going to make much difference in performance. There might be a slight improvement as your wallet will be lighter.

Regards,

Arie

[BlackVr6ix]

I was under the impression different companies added different additives to maintain a consistant octane rating.

i was also told different cars/engines react differently to different additives.

I'm probably wrong but calculations and real world performance/mileage doesnt lie

[DutchAussie]

I was under the impression different companies added different additives to maintain a consistant octane rating.

That is correct up to a point. The RON can be blended from a number of components. It usually depends on what is available as to what is put in the blend.

i was also told different cars/engines react differently to different additives.

I am not sure what you mean with this. Do you mean additives put in after you buy the fuel?

I'm probably wrong but calculations and real world performance/mileage doesnt lie

Regards,

Arie

[syncro]

The problem is, that 95 isn't always 95. Especially on the cheap fuels from overseas. I won't use non brand name fuels. Remember the Woolworths fuel about ten years ago? A lot of people regreted the 3c discount when they rebuilt their engine. And the cheap diesel in southern NSW.

If it pings, it's bad. Very very bad

[DutchAussie]

The problem is, that 95 isn't always 95. Especially on the cheap fuels from overseas. I won't use non brand name fuels. Remember the Woolworths fuel about ten years ago? A lot of people regreted the 3c discount when they rebuilt their engine. And the cheap diesel in southern NSW.

If it pings, it's bad. Very very bad

As far as I know, all fuel imported into this country has to conform to Australian Standards. Any fuel imported for the major oil companies is tested and should comply.

I don't know what happens with independents.

My opinion? Stick with the major companies as per syncros advice and use high turnover service stations (sorry old name-there is no service).

If I have to buy Diesel, I go to a station where the truckies go. If they sell any crap the truckies will soon sort them out.

Arie

[DutchAussie]

Thanks for the input. Are you saying that Oz fuels are as good as Euro fuels? Or are you saying that the Oz standard is the same as the Euro standard?

Good to have someone on the forum who is knowledgeable in this area.

As I mentioned we make our petrol in Australia to Australian Standards. I think we are always a few steps behind Europe as the quality car manufacturers in Europe put a lot of pressure on the oil companies to supply better fuel. The fuel quality in Europe is mainly governed by pollution prevention requirements.

The vehicle manufacturers have to comply with the laws and redesign their engines accordingly. To meet the requirements the fuel will have to match.

The only reason our fuel is improving is because the companies like VW put pressure on the oil companies and the government in Australia.

Basically any oil company produces fuel to the lowest specification allowable as it cost more to make it better.

RON is only one of the specs but if the spec says 91 RON, that is what you make, not 91.1. This cost more and you will not last long as a Production Planner if you consistently go over the minimum spec.

I hope this helps,

Arie

[syncro]

As far as I know, all fuel imported into this country has to conform to Australian Standards. Any fuel imported for the major oil companies is tested and should comply.

Yes it should comply but it doesn't and they are getting caught by the testers. Still more profitable to bring in cheap fuel and pay the fines.

Apparently there are two standards for diesel in Australia. I have read that most car manufacturers were reluctant to import oil burners here until recently when we started selling euro standard diesel.
I'm sure some of the oilers here know more about this than me.

[brackie]

Oz diesel

I'm sure some of the oilers here know more about this than me.

We're probably as much in the dark as you are, Phill.

ULSD was introduced last year and as you said, this was to comply to the European Standard. It's a good thing that we're going this way as now we can get European and N American high-efficiency diesel cars.

This is bit off-topic, but I can't understand why the Koreans haven't capitalised on the upsurge in the sales of diesel cars. All of their popular models are available in other parts of the world in diesel form. The same applies to Ford

[vinderliker]

I have to run PULP in the Little Beastie. Tried the Shell 100 and it has either 5-10% ethanol, I didn't notice much difference, except in the price as usual. When I get the new engine, I think I still use PULP as it burns better.

[DutchAussie]

I have to run PULP in the Little Beastie. Tried the Shell 100 and it has either 5-10% ethanol, I didn't notice much difference, except in the price as usual. When I get the new engine, I think I still use PULP as it burns better.

I presume the Little Beastie is your 74 Passat and it had to use Super in it's day?

Arie

[DutchAussie]

We're probably as much in the dark as you are, Phill.

ULSD was introduced last year and as you said, this was to comply to the European Standard. It's a good thing that we're going this way as now we can get European and N American high-efficiency diesel cars.

This is bit off-topic, but I can't understand why the Koreans haven't capitalised on the upsurge in the sales of diesel cars. All of their popular models are available in other parts of the world in diesel form. The same applies to Ford

Brackie,

looking at your signature are you a Diesel fan?

Arie

[DutchAussie]

Australian Diesel Standards

The following are Sulphur Specifications for Australian Diesel:

From:

31-Dec-02 500 ppm (max)
01-Jan-06 50 ppm (max)
01-Jan-09 10 ppm (max)

I am looking forward to the 10 ppm. We are now getting somewhere with our Diesel.
All we need now is the Government reducing its Tax on Tax.

Arie

[brackie]

Ha!

We are now getting somewhere with our Diesel.
All we need now is the Government reducing its Tax on Tax.

Arie

The govmt reducing any tax on the motorist No way Jose! The Europeans are just so far ahead of us.

Biodiesel = UULSD

[DutchAussie]

Glad to have someone on board who knows there stuff! We all (like me on this post) have all been to0ld different things and have our own understandings/beliefs. Your input on this will invaluable.

Have you done any testing yourself as to the merits of different brands/octane ratings in Oz? What would your recommendations be?

I have always used Optimax/V-Power as it was the first widely available and i understood it to be very good. Is there better out there?

Thanks in advance for your guidence/input on this

I have only tried Mobil products as I receive an ex employee discount.

You should not notice any real difference between petrol from the major oil companies. I used to work for Shell in Holland and frequently traveled with
someone who used Esso petrol and said Shell was rubbish. It made his engine ping,etc. I knew for a fact his fuel came from the same tank but couldn't say anything.

I haven't used Optimax/V-Power and without scientific comparison tests couldn't tell you which is better. The petrol you put in your tank is different in each state, it depends what it is blended from but should have almost identical performance.

I will be supplying more information on my Website in the near future.

Regards,

Arie