Windscreen cleaning / clarity problem MY13 Polo

[JonP01]

Hi,

I have a problem with the cleanliness of the windscreen on my MY13 Polo. The windscreen is physically in near new condition so far as structural integrity is concerned (i.e no chips, just a few tiny microscopic, superficial nicks), but I notice particularly when driving either at night or into the sun, a sort of "overspray" effect over the entire surface of the windshield. It is as if overspray has gotton over the entire windscreen or that the windscreen has been lightly sandblasted all over. But I know it isn't actually overspray, since the car when delivered had a perfect windscreen and the car has never been anywhere remotely near a panel shop since I first came into possession of it. And the effect I am talking about certainly wasn't there when brand new. And I don't really think it is abrasion, as the car has never been driven is dusty conditions and is kept clean on a regular basis.

I have tried two different types of windscreen cleaner (Meguiars Crystal Clear and the Mothers one) as well as the Autoglym windscreen polish. I have tried a couple of different cloths as well -the Turtle microfibre windscreen cleaning cloth and the Meguiars microfiber windscreen cleaning cloth. Even ordinary Viva paper towels. Nothing seems to help at all.

If I am not driving into the sun or at night, it is fine as I can't see these optical issues. But it makes driving at night quite unpleasant, as whatever is causing this problem creates a "grainy" effect whenever street lights shine into the windscreen - or as I mentioned before - driving early in the morning or late afternoon when the sun is low.

I am almost desperate enough to replace the windscreen given nothing so far has worked, but given I have been so careful with the car and it is always garaged, I fear whatever caused this problem will cause it all over again. I was even thinking it was something to do with a manufacturing issue with the screen - mabye some strange reaction with the lamination process. I can't even really see whether the issue is on the outside, inside, or literally inside the lamination somewhere.

Has anyone had this issue before and was able to resolve it? This is my first non-Japanese car and I have never had the problem with any of my previous cars. I'm getting a bit desperate as I am having to do a lot of night driving at the moment and this issue is causing me a lot of distraction when trying to drive at night.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[fuzion]

Have you tried to clay the windscreen?

And are you definitely sure this is exterior?

[JonP01]

Have you tried to clay the windscreen?

And are you definitely sure this is exterior?

Well, I have tried cleaning the heck out of the inside of the screen, but to no avail. This doesn't automatically mean it isn't on the inside, but if it is, nothing I have tried removes it. I was thinking of clay, but have no idea of how to go about it. I am so clumsy with car detailing I would probably leave it to the professional who detailed and Ceramic Pro'd the car when it was new.

If anything I would say it is the plastic layer in the middle of the laminate, as the blasting effect is so perfectly uniform across the entire screen area (you'd think if it was some comtamination, the windscreen would not be so uniformly stuffed over every square millimetre).!

One thing I might add - about a month ago we had massively poor air quality due to the bushfires - 2500 quality when 50 is normal. I could not breathe without a mask and I did have to drive through it to evacuate my cat from the area as she had become extremely sick from the smoke.

I was wondering if that might somehow have damaged the glass (though the glass on the sides and back is perfect as is the paint).

[Lucas_R]

Have you tried to clay the windscreen?

And are you definitely sure this is exterior?

^ this.

Also if you rub your hand over the glass (either inside or out) does it feel smooth? If you have overspray/fallout etc on the glass you will feel it when you rub your hand over it. In this case, you will feel the roughness of whatever is on the glass and your hand will not slide easily/smoothly over it.

Another thing to try is either a razor blade or very fine steel wool and rub this on the outside of the glass. Use windex or water as a lubricant. Make sure you clean the glass prior to using this to remove any dirt.

I regularly use the razor scraper method with windex as a lubricant, and then polish the glass afterwards with Autoglym window polish (although any polish will do).

Steel wool grade 0000, lots of it, $3.61 at Bunnings.




Razor blade scraper like this:

Retractable Razor Scraper

[Guest001]

Do you smoke yourself or any other passengers. Smoking puts a film on the inside of the windows which can be quite hard to remove.

I had a windscreen replaced once and it had a handprint on it Cleaned inside and out with cutter and it was still there.

Was actually on the plastic in between the 2 glass panels. Had to get it replaced. Again

[JonP01]

Thanks for the replies. No, I don't smoke and nor does anyone who travels in the car. I am 99% sure it isn't on the inside of the glass. It feels very smooth as if it is perfectly pristine.

I did try the running finger across as Lucas suggests and although it did not feel rough or matt, it did have some resistance that I don't feel on the inside. Then I decided to press much harder and although it is hard to tell, I think some of whatever might be on it was shifting (not actually coming off, but sort of getting redistributed), but not easily.

Could this simply be a case of poor washing technique and I have 15 months of wax buildup on the screen (I use Meguiars Ultimate Wash and Wax and I have put it on the screen, not thinking it could do much harm (since I still clean the screen with a windscreen cleaner)?

But come to think of it, maybe somehow the wax built up stubbornly on the windscreen. I still can't really tell and would have to test it when the sun is very low or under street lights (I don't have any assistant to hold a light and shine it into the screen).

I am also wondering if I am being too gentle with the windscreen polish. If Lucus is using lubricated steel wool then perhaps a glass windscreen is much more scratch resistant than I gave it credit for. I was sort polishing very lightly - halfway between the sort of pressure I would use to clean an LCD display but a bit more than I might use to apply wax to paint. So I tried much higher pressure and whatever I could see on the outside (from massaging with high pressure using my thumb), did seem to shift using the Autoglym Polish. But again, I can't yet tell whether whatever shifted is what caused the problem.

I feel pretty nervous about steel wool, razor blades albeit lubricated. Is there a better quality polish than the Autoglym - one that I can use without having to use a machine attachment? I see some good products at Waxit and would probably prefer a very high quality polish rather than using tools with hard surfaces. Whilst I obviously want a clear screen, I also don't want to end up with something containing millions of micro-scratches - like what you get if you rub a cloth on shiny plastic for example. That would be even worse than the current problem.

[Lucas_R]

The razor blade and/or fine steel wool is safe to use and works well. Dont worry, i wouldnt recommend you use them if they were going to cause damage to your car. I am super mega fussy with both my car's and use the razor blade on the windows several times a year.

If you scrape the glass at an angle of say 60-70 degrees, the blade literally slides over the glass and pics up any foreign matter such as tar/fallout/overspray etc. Im sure there are some videos on YouTube showing this method - might be worth a quick look.

The other method, possibly less nerve wracking for someone who has never done it before, is the clay bar option as mentioned above by fuzion. The clay bar sort of has the same consistency as Bluetac, and when you rub it on the glass/paint, it "picks up" and fallout/overspray.

If you want to persist with the polish, push harder. BUT if you have overspray/fallout on your paint or glass, no amount of polishing is going to get it off im afraid - you will need to either clay bar it, razor it or steel wool it.

[JonP01]

I had a tiny bit of isopropyl alcohol left in the kitchen (I use it for cleaning my aluminium kitchen stuff) so I put what I had left onto a Meguiars windscreen cloth and was very relieved to see that whatever has accumulated on the windscreen was being shifted. But I only had enough to do about 10 square centimetres. I am still not sure exactly what it is but I think it is a combination of film build-up over 18 months and wax from washing the paintwork with the Meguiars Ultimate Wash and Wax (which is excellent for paintwork at any rate).

As I say, I have always babied the paint but the windscreen has been an afterthought. Unlike the paint, it was never sealed and so the grime has built up over time and did not become obvious until I was driving into a very low sun or at night.

Anyway, I am now going to buy some more isopropyl alcohol and the PolishAngel Cristal (sic) polish and the PolishAngel Diver cleaner. Yes, they are expensive but they should last a very long time. And when I wash the car from now on, I will wash the windscreen first just with the sponge and plain water then wash and wax the paint work after that (previously I washed the windscreen with the same sponge / bucket I have been using to do the paintwork). I will then use the Diver cleaner at the end of my cleaning regime. Hopefully this will at least stop the wax built up and keep me on top of the road film buildup as well, etc.

If this does not work I will try the more aggressive solutions (i.e. clay, razor blades, steel wool, etc). But from what I see, chemical cleaning then a bit of elbow grease with the polish should hopefully be all that is needed.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[Guest001]

Cheapest place to by isopropyl is Bunnings

[JonP01]

Cheapest place to by isopropyl is Bunnings

So you know if they sell it in decent sized containers these days? Last time I checked they only sold it in very small bottles - smaller than a deodorant container.

[Guest001]

Wouldn't have a clue about sizes Someone told me they had it for less than I paid at the chemist. You can dilute it anyway

Its possibly illegal to sell it in bigger ones

Make enquiries at Jaycar or electronic parts suppliers Last time I used rubbing alcohol which contains it For $8 a 500ml bottle
Was putting 3M clear sheeting on car panels

A Google search (Your eternal friend) would have revealed this amongst others

http://www.matthewmcdonald.com/238/purchasing-isopropyl-alcohol-in-australia-aka-ipa-rubbing-alcohol-propan-2-ol-2-propanol-and-isopropanol

[brad]

Lucas R is spot on about steel wool.

Also scotchbrite scourers wotk well. Ajax or Bon Ami applied wet, wait to dry & wipe off with a dry cloth or kitchen towel. Gumption is good too (not sure if you can still buy it)

Toothpaste is good.

Seriously, I think your overthinking this & underestimating how tough glass is.

[JonP01]

Yes, I think I am underestimating the glass. I might have looked very stupid doing this, but tonight I deliberately parked the Polo under the street light so I could see more clearly the problem. There is definitely a buildup of film that I am going to have to get rid of using a good polish at the very least (and probably clay bar / steel wool, etc). But I also see what else is happening. I polished a small area and it dramatically improved (I used the green Meguiars Glass cloth), but as I wiped the polish off at the end and gave it a good rub to get it to shine, I could see that tiny filaments of material from the cloth were depositing themselves on the windscreen and contributing greatly (at least 50%) to this "overspray" sort of appearance.

I don't get it though - these specialty cloths are supposed to be designed for glass but they leave deposits on the windscreen. Same with the Turtle glass cloth I used and paper towels. I am starting to think the best approach after clay baring then polishing is to just use the windscreen cleaner, then wet the screen thoroughly with water and use a rubber squeegee. At least that won't leave these lint deposits which are very obvious when driving at night under street lights (but weirdly not so obvious with car headlights shining directly into the screen.

So what sort of cloths / methods do you guys use when you are just doing ordinary cleaning? Seems like these expensive "glass cloths" are only good for the polishing and cleaning part and no good for actually finishing it off in such a way that you get no streaks and no lint deposits (and yes, these cloths were either new or very near new).

[brad]

Stop using wash'n'wax as a start. Use carwash to wash the car & wax to apply a protective coating. carcareproducts can point you in the right direction. I like Duragloss as a detergent but there are heaps of other good ones out there. Natty's Poorboys for wax but there are heaps of better stuff.

I just use cheap microfibre cloths that I buy for about $5 for 10. Throw a bunch in the washing machine when finished. You can't do that with the expensive stuff.

Scrunched up newspaper is good for cleaning too. You go through heaps but it works.

I use Invisible Glass on the windows but again, there are plenty of alternatives & it's just glorified Windex.

Your first job is to scrape the layer of gunk off the outside of the windows.

[JonP01]

Finally had success after a lot of trial and error using the PolishAngel Cristal (applied with microfibre pad), followed by removal of the polish with a Meguiars "blue" microfibre cloth lubricated with a small amount of interior detailer, then the PolishAngel cleaner (very small amount needed using Viva paper towel).

I checked everything using a strong white LED light at an angle that showed every single minute flaw in the screen - it took me a while to get the technique down pat - especially the cleaning part with the PolishAngel cleaner - as this is a make or break as regards clear optics - as the white LED light was clearly showing me. Too much cleaner and you get a cloudy finish with streaking. Just one squirt for each side of screen onto a Viva paper towel is all that was needed.

The aim was to have the screen as clean as my eye-glasses and I finally found a technique to achieve that. I just drove it out tonight and checked it under the lights and it is fine. Mind you, I really am not impressed with the durability of these screens. Even after 15 months, there is a significant amount of "micro" impact damage - I mean impact damage far too small to need a resin repair (more like very tiny pin pricks), but certainly visible under that forensic light, as are scratches from the wiper blades despite being scrupulously careful to keep them clean and hardly ever needing to use the wipers at all in the whole time I have had it (mind you, those rain sensing wipers have started to work when there is nowhere near enough water on the screen to provide enough lubrication).

I know people will say the gunk on the screen did not help, but I don't honestly think it would have made much difference, since the car has hardly even been driven in the rain at all. But I suspect I could find the flaws I found today on almost anyone's screen. I had a look at the screens on my mother's and brother's cars today and they are far worse again - scratches galore on well-cared for cars. I'd hate to think what the screen on the Polo will be like in 5 years time. I'm now tending to think of VW windscreens as a wearing item like brakes and tyres.

It is a pity we don't have those "tear offs" like they have in V8 supercar racing. I realise windscreens cop a heck of a lot - the wind going directly into them at 110 kmh with all sorts of micro-projectiles in the air flow - but I actually reckon the Perspex screens they use in aircraft would be a better bet and easier to maintain.

I would even think about buying a new screen, but it would likely end up just the same as the original one after another two years. Pity a brick does not go through it every year - that would be great lol.