Another dead DSG, ...or maybe not?

[CardinalSin]

I was in the habit of coasting up to the lights in neutral and if the lights changed quickly simply slip into drive with zero transmission shock......not sure with the DSG though, that's why I want to know exactly what goes on......and don't need a lecture on it being unsafe as I certainly don't if it is.

They mention somewhere about being stationary before selecting drive or reverse. I'm surprised they don't just lock the selector up unless you've stopped. Chances are, if it lets you select neutral and then drive, on the move, then it's not detrimental but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way.
You can stop it changing down under brakes by selecting manual and of course it has to shift down at about 1000rpm because it hasn't got a torque converter. I like that because in a manual I use the engine to slow down, not revving the guts out of it, for economy and safer driving. So the shifting down at 1000rpm lets me drive without braking a lot of the time.

[Ryeman]

They mention somewhere about being stationary before selecting drive or reverse. I'm surprised they don't just lock the selector up unless you've stopped. Chances are, if it lets you select neutral and then drive, on the move, then it's not detrimental but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way.
You can stop it changing down under brakes by selecting manual and of course it has to shift down at about 1000rpm because it hasn't got a torque converter. I like that because in a manual I use the engine to slow down, not revving the guts out of it, for economy and safer driving. So the shifting down at 1000rpm lets me drive without braking a lot of the time.

I agree with regard to the lack of lock out....it's inevitable that at speed it will get knocked into N so you would think the engineers would have insisted on it if it was detrimental to the 'box'.
Its SO easy it almost seems designed to enable it.
I've heard that European trans engineers are working on 'freewheeling' for an incremental emission/economy improvement.

[VW Convert]

I've heard that European trans engineers are working on 'freewheeling' for an incremental emission/economy improvement.

VW already have that, I had a brand new 130TDI Passat loan car last time my car was being serviced, it had free wheeling on overrun.

Passat Sedan variants < Passat Sedan < Models & Pricing < Volkswagen Australia

Cheers

George

[CardinalSin]

I agree with regard to the lack of lock out....it's inevitable that at speed it will get knocked into N so you would think the engineers would have insisted on it if it was detrimental to the 'box'.
Its SO easy it almost seems designed to enable it.
I've heard that European trans engineers are working on 'freewheeling' for an incremental emission/economy improvement.

How about this scenario. It's in 6th and you slip it into neutral. The clutches were at 6th and 5th as I understand it. You slow to say 30kph and slip it back into drive. Did the clutches pre-select lower gears suitable for that speed or do they select them when it shifts into drive or is it bad news?

They could program in an economy setting where it changes up earlier, doesn't change down under brakes, slips into neutral off throttle[sailing] and only charges under brakes if the battery is above a certain level of charge.

VW are already using sailing i with the 7 speed dry clutch DSG.

DSG Freewheel activation

[CardinalSin]

VW already have that, I had a brand new 130TDI Passat loan car last time my car was being serviced, it had free wheeling on overrun.

Passat Sedan variants < Passat Sedan < Models & Pricing < Volkswagen Australia

Cheers

George

You beat me to it. That Passat is a 6 speed DSG too.

[Ryeman]

VW already have that, I had a brand new 130TDI Passat loan car last time my car was being serviced, it had free wheeling on overrun.

Passat Sedan variants < Passat Sedan < Models & Pricing < Volkswagen Australia

Cheers

George

So I take it that manually freewheeling in the Yeti is perfectly ok?

[VW Convert]

So I take it that manually freewheeling in the Yeti is perfectly ok?

Not sure.

VW have designed this particular version of the DQ250 DSG to operate in this way. I have no idea what the differences are between this design and previous designs. It would be quite a leap to assume the fact that a later version has been designed to operate this way clears the way to operate an earlier version in the manner you have described.

Cheers

George

[Ryeman]

Not sure.

VW have designed this particular version of the DQ250 DSG to operate in this way. I have no idea what the differences are between this design and previous designs. It would be quite a leap to assume the fact that a later version has been designed to operate this way clears the way to operate an earlier version in the manner you have described.

Cheers

George

I think if you accidentally knocked it into neutral and the re selected D and it damaged the box I'd be pretty p..... and want an explanation why N wasn't protected by lockout.

[CardinalSin]

I think if you accidentally knocked it into neutral and the re selected D and it damaged the box I'd be pretty p..... and want an explanation why N wasn't protected by lockout.

If you give it a go i'll be interested to hear how you get on.
I would try it at about 70kph in 6th the first time, so there isn't a big difference in the rpm needed to get back into drive again. Just in case.

[VW Convert]

I think if you accidentally knocked it into neutral and the re selected D and it damaged the box I'd be pretty p..... and want an explanation why N wasn't protected by lockout.

So would I, doesn't mean I'm going to assume that it is OK to do so, potentially an expensive way to find out if it is OK or not.

Curious to understand your comments about not wanting to wear out the clutches. In all the years I've been on this forum I don't recall seeing a single post relating to premature wear of clutches on a DQ250, for that matter, I can't recall a single post about replacing DQ250 clutches other than a handful where users were doing engine mods and were upgrading to cope with significant increase in power output.

Cheers

George

[Ryeman]

If you give it a go i'll be interested to hear how you get on.
I would try it at about 70kph in 6th the first time, so there isn't a big difference in the rpm needed to get back into drive again. Just in case.

No No, you go first))
My theory is that the clutch that handles 2/4/6 doesn't engage until the road speed sensor matches the main shaft speed by application of the precise amount of fuel to the engine. Seeing there is no big deal with everything being digitally driven and monitored.
I guess as each through SAE articles will be the best way to research it.
A theory of mine is if Toyota use it, it must be bullet proof.
They don't!

[Ryeman]

So would I, doesn't mean I'm going to assume that it is OK to do so, potentially an expensive way to find out if it is OK or not.

Curious to understand your comments about not wanting to wear out the clutches. In all the years I've been on this forum I don't recall seeing a single post relating to premature wear of clutches on a DQ250, for that matter, I can't recall a single post about replacing DQ250 clutches other than a handful where users were doing engine mods and were upgrading to cope with significant increase in power output.

Cheers

George

Re clutch wear, I'm meaning the moving off/and 'drag' against the handbrake when in D. Also idling on an upslope sufficient to not need foot or handbrake (I'd like to know what's going on there in particular because it's not that uncommon in a conventional auto).
Ta

[CardinalSin]

No No, you go first))
My theory is that the clutch that handles 2/4/6 doesn't engage until the road speed sensor matches the main shaft speed by application of the precise amount of fuel to the engine. Seeing there is no big deal with everything being digitally driven and monitored.
I guess as each through SAE articles will be the best way to research it.
A theory of mine is if Toyota use it, it must be bullet proof.
They don't!

Thanks but i'll pass.

I think it would work or lock you out. The danger is that it works but over time causes problems.
I like the idea of the DSG software being modified to alter shift patterns, remove the torque limiter and increase the clutch pressure to lift the capability of the box.
I read somewhere that VW will upgrade the software on the DSG, for free, to match the latest spec which improves the operation and the life.

My Toyota 86 manual was a Subaru with some Toyota parts. Lexus gearbox, LSD and direct injection are the main Toyota contributions. After about 12,000km the 5th gear synchro failed and they fitted a new gearbox. They were good in replacing it quickly with no hesitation but it was far from bullet proof.

[passatstef]

Thanks but i'll pass.

I think it would work or lock you out. The danger is that it works but over time causes problems.
I like the idea of the DSG software being modified to alter shift patterns, remove the torque limiter and increase the clutch pressure to lift the capability of the box.
I read somewhere that VW will upgrade the software on the DSG, for free, to match the latest spec which improves the operation and the life.

My Toyota 86 manual was a Subaru with some Toyota parts. Lexus gearbox, LSD and direct injection are the main Toyota contributions. After about 12,000km the 5th gear synchro failed and they fitted a new gearbox. They were good in replacing it quickly with no hesitation but it was far from bullet proof.

if any one needs info on this silly box that volkswagon have and having problems let me know.i rebuild them for a living so forth.

[CardinalSin]

if any one needs info on this silly box that volkswagon have and having problems let me know.i rebuild them for a living so forth.

Is there anything we should avoid doing and is the DQ250 more reliable than the 7 speed dry clutch version?