Petrol RS Wagon DSG, Is this because of the car being new?

[Lucas_R]

Ive driven a work colleagues Mk7 Golf R a few times over the past few weeks and its so lazy in D mode....always in too high of a gear which makes it feel laggy and lazy. Im a manual gearbox driver and hate auto's, so I flick it over into sport and control the gears on the paddles behind the wheel....it's much better this way (although give me a proper manual anyday).

[chriskan]

Agreed, i get frustrated with the D and S mode, not having something in between. What's worse is when you're in S, and use the paddles to shift.. it then goes back to the S mode automatically and downshifts from 5th to 3rd..

On a somewhat related topic, does anyone know of DSG paddle Extensions available for the Mk3?

[dArK5HaD0w]

Looks like they changed the dsg mapping for the 6-speed gearbox in the mk3.
i believe the mk3 has the DQ250 gearbox, the same one found in the current mk2 vRS.

I had no such symptoms with my DSG6 in my mk2. It was very pleasant, and predictable. Infact I drove most of the 1st 1000kms in D. Something to do with the way it learns.

Urs is not "normal"....in my opinion.

I know have a dsg performance tune cause the factory mapped S mode sucked big time.
not anymore now - S mode is so addictive, and even D mode continues to handles the spirited requests nicely.

[afterdarker]

Petrol RS Wagon DSG, Is this because of the car being new?

From what I have observed, if I have some input(just normal input around 20% not flooring) on the throttle, then the car will hang on to 2nd gear maybe all the way to 70km/h or higher, otherwise if I lift my foot, the car will shift into 3rd gear, only when the car is above around 54km/h, for anything below 50km/h, it will hold onto 2nd even if I lift my foot.

I think it will be provide a better drive in S if the car shift up at around 4k under normal throttle input. I guess that's why DSG reprogramming tune exist.

I'm surprised at your comments. There are more gearbox options on this car than any vehicle I have ever driven. You get sport normal and Eco modes for the overall engine . You get manual, sport or drive mode for the gearbox. You have paddles on the wheel to override it at any time. If it is revving too high or not revving enough you only have to touch a button, there are dozens of combinations all of which can be changed at an instant.
Honestly mate WTF are you agonising about? Talk about a first world gearbox problem!

[Martin]

You have to learn how to use and work with equipment you buy or use
There is no point rambling on about how you would prefer it to operate

I've had my Octavia VRS for 2.5 years now, I do ~500km driving to from work every week
I never ever use S mode during daily/city driving - there is simply no need or point.
D mode holds the gear to red line at full throttle - good for getting away quickly and then switching into cruise mode

S mode is designed to maintain higher RPM to provide ready access to power and acceleration,
rather than having to wait 1.2 seconds for an un-predicted down change,
that's why it holds the RPM/gear, there is a point to it, during performance driving.
If you in S mode in a 60km urban area and wanting low RPM your expectations and usage of the transmission are incorrect.

The best tip I've given to people who are new to the DSG is use the accelerator smoothly,
it's more comfortable - no sudden loss of power waiting for an un-predicted down change followed by abrupt power delivery
being smooth allows the DSG predictive changing to work nicely for/with you.

If you're cruising in a high gear and suddenly stab full throttle, it's less than pleasant

If you're in D mode and do emergency style braking from 100kmph, turn a corner, then hit full throttle,
the DSG will be in the wrong gear, you'll be waiting for that un-predicted change and get that nasty rush of power

Smooth throttle/speed transitions or using the paddles to select the required gear will make the experience much better

The purpose of the DSG tune is not to provide lower RPM
It's purpose is to increase the clutch clamping pressure to better cope with more power from tuned engines,
provide a true manual mode, it's possible to make simultaneous throttle and brake usage viable,
and discard the economy objectives of the stock program.
None of this is desirable for daily commuter usage.

[sillyboy]

I'm surprised at your comments. There are more gearbox options on this car than any vehicle I have ever driven. You get sport normal and Eco modes for the overall engine . You get manual, sport or drive mode for the gearbox. You have paddles on the wheel to override it at any time. If it is revving too high or not revving enough you only have to touch a button, there are dozens of combinations all of which can be changed at an instant.
Honestly mate WTF are you agonising about? Talk about a first world gearbox problem!

Calm down mate~ you are right, this is indeed a first world gearbox problem, I am complaining only because the MK6 and MK5 Golf GTI DSG weren't like this.

[sillyboy]

Looks like they changed the dsg mapping for the 6-speed gearbox in the mk3.
i believe the mk3 has the DQ250 gearbox, the same one found in the current mk2 vRS.

I had no such symptoms with my DSG6 in my mk2. It was very pleasant, and predictable. Infact I drove most of the 1st 1000kms in D. Something to do with the way it learns.

Urs is not "normal"....in my opinion.

I know have a dsg performance tune cause the factory mapped S mode sucked big time.
not anymore now - S mode is so addictive, and even D mode continues to handles the spirited requests nicely.

I am suspecting they have changed the programming too(for fuel economy maybe?), I have drove the stock Mk2 vRS, Mk5 GTI(this is an APR stage 1 without DSG tune) and stock MK6, they were all lively even in D.

[sillyboy]

You have to learn how to use and work with equipment you buy or use
There is no point rambling on about how you would prefer it to operate

I've had my Octavia VRS for 2.5 years now, I do ~500km driving to from work every week
I never ever use S mode during daily/city driving - there is simply no need or point.
D mode holds the gear to red line at full throttle - good for getting away quickly and then switching into cruise mode

S mode is designed to maintain higher RPM to provide ready access to power and acceleration,
rather than having to wait 1.2 seconds for an un-predicted down change,
that's why it holds the RPM/gear, there is a point to it, during performance driving.
If you in S mode in a 60km urban area and wanting low RPM your expectations and usage of the transmission are incorrect.

The best tip I've given to people who are new to the DSG is use the accelerator smoothly,
it's more comfortable - no sudden loss of power waiting for an un-predicted down change followed by abrupt power delivery
being smooth allows the DSG predictive changing to work nicely for/with you.

If you're cruising in a high gear and suddenly stab full throttle, it's less than pleasant

If you're in D mode and do emergency style braking from 100kmph, turn a corner, then hit full throttle,
the DSG will be in the wrong gear, you'll be waiting for that un-predicted change and get that nasty rush of power

Smooth throttle/speed transitions or using the paddles to select the required gear will make the experience much better

The purpose of the DSG tune is not to provide lower RPM
It's purpose is to increase the clutch clamping pressure to better cope with more power from tuned engines,
provide a true manual mode, it's possible to make simultaneous throttle and brake usage viable,
and discard the economy objectives of the stock program.
None of this is desirable for daily commuter usage.

While I agreed with many of the points you have made, I disagreed to some of them,

There could be a different DSG programming in the MK3 vRS compare to the MK2, hence the driveability is different, especially in D, an easy way to put this is, I found the torque output of MK2 vRS/MK5 GTI/Mk6 GTI/even the Yeti TDI are more sensible and linear to throttle input(this is regarding D only). This is however only my observation, someone might disagree.

As for the DSG tune, I found the following text from HP's website regarding their DSG tune product, they did mention a lowered S for better drive, and a D "gear closely matched to engine load & vehicle speed", I guess these have something to do with Shift timing, RPM and the torque output allowed in certain gears, I could be wrong though as I have never driven a car with such tune.

"DQ250 – K03 - Stock Power Level Vehicles (Driveability)


Our upgraded shift program solves a lot of the factory driveability issues
Modified torque limiter & torque capacity upgrade 450 – 500nm
Modified D - Drive mode for better drivability (gear closely matched to engine load & vehicle speed)
The S - Sport program is "lowered" for better usability
Faster shift response (especially for the older models)
All new software is based on the newest VAG version
Clutch shudder is dramatically reduced
Longer life of gearbox & clutch packs, less clutch slip"

And I strongly agree with you that I should start to use my paddle to request a down shift in D, it should make the overtaking much more smooth and pleasant.

[w00ties]

You're all doing it wrong - you should be driving in E. Coasting FTW.

[afterdarker]

Calm down mate~ you are right, this is indeed a first world gearbox problem, I am complaining only because the MK6 and MK5 Golf GTI DSG weren't like this.

Well SillyBoy I'm afraid you have an appropriate forum name as far as this thread goes. Martin gave a very good response. Really you only have to touch a paddle button. Which is what this thread is about - you don't want to press a button!! Not much sympathy for you mate for this terrible problem. (I wouldn't want to be your barista! You would be very particular about your latte, I reckon.)

[sillyboy]

Well SillyBoy I'm afraid you have an appropriate forum name as far as this thread goes. Martin gave a very good response. Really you only have to touch a paddle button. Which is what this thread is about - you don't want to press a button!! Not much sympathy for you mate for this terrible problem. (I wouldn't want to be your barista! You would be very particular about your latte, I reckon.)

Each to their own I guess, and you Sir should calm down, I don't think I have offended you in any ways, Yes, I have a problem with my car's gearbox programming, so are some other members, and I am seeking advises for it, and I am sure someone out there is also seeking a way to overcome this. If you are feeling stressed with your live/work/relationship or what ever, take your anger elsewhere.

[Skoda Soda]

Calm down gents.

If you're new to a DSG gearbox it can be quite tricky and confusing, blurring the line between normal and faulty.

My current car is VW Jetta TFSI DSG with some decent go fast bits. If the car is new or if you've modified it, the car does need to learn and adapt to how you drive and this will obviously take some time. That being said, if you're driving style has been consistent for a significant amount if time/distance and you suddenly change behaviour, it will cause the car to stutter and react differently to your expectations. I'm not entirely sure how the new DSGs are programmed, but I've found that my DSG recognises and saves different behaviours to suit, and rightly so as I'm not the only one driving the car, and each driver would have different driving habits which the DSG would need to adapt to.

I considered the DSG tune a while back but came to the conclusion it wasn't worth it. Unless you're planning on significantly increasing the power output of your engine, by this I mean upgrading to a stage 3 ecu, bigger turbo, down pipe, intake, fuel lines, etc, you would definitely need to configure your DSGs software and hardware to tolerate the extra power and torque. If you're dealing with a simple Stage 1+, your DSG will be able to handle it and will need time again to reconfigure itself.

I would recommend either giving your car more time to adapt to your driving habits and styles (sensible and not so sensible), and if you're still having doubts, definitely take it to a VAG specialist or dealer to look into it.

[Martin]

I looked into the DSG flash but found it really hard to justify

The ECU flash was a great return on investment
(anybody that has spent money trying to get more power out of a car would understand that)

[afterdarker]

Each to their own I guess, and you Sir should calm down, I don't think I have offended you in any ways, Yes, I have a problem with my car's gearbox programming, so are some other members, and I am seeking advises for it, and I am sure someone out there is also seeking a way to overcome this. If you are feeling stressed with your live/work/relationship or what ever, take your anger elsewhere.

Thanks SillyBoy, why do you think I am agitated or angry? On the contrary, very relaxed - as laughing helps to relax me. I think you are the one stressing about your "problem". Some people have real problems. Like in Nepal.
But I do appreciate you are seeking advice and I will cease making fun of you. Enjoy the vRS and just give it some mate -hit the pedal and press the buttons when you need to, don't stress about it, just drive the damned thing and enjoy it.

[99Reza]

The only issue I have with the DSG box (both DQ250 & DQ500) is how they slip the clutch while going up the hill at slow speed, forward or reverse (worse in reverse).