Put DSG into neutral at the lights?

[Martin]

I've been thinking about is the right thing to do for the DSG transmission at the lights, put it into neutral or leave it in drive
When I learnt to drive in a manual I was told that holding the clutch down for ages:

• Will result in a larger left leg than the right leg (depends on the car/clutch)
• Wears the clutch release bearing

So what do we do with the DSG (which clearly different to both the manual and torque converter)?

I have noticed that if I put it into neutral

• The litres per 100 km figure consistently drops by 0.1
• There are less vibrations (I have a hard after market transmission mount)

What do you guys think and actually do?

[kamold]

I don't know enough about the actual mechanical wizardry involved, but my guess would be that the transmission has been designed to be driven as one would a traditional torque converter auto ie put your brain into neutral whilst transmission is in D.

Both clutch packs would be fully engaged whilst stopped with your foot on the brake (assumption) so you're just free-wheeling. I would think that the process of manually engaging neutral would not make any material difference other than the wear of moving the gear selector?

I don't really feel any engagement of a gear when at the lights in the way that you do with a slushbox, this is something that some people tend to point out as a negative feature of the DSG (in addition to the problematic DSG units that hesitate excessively and then apply too much force when engaging. I have driven one of these and it was not pleasant).

Between the two co-axial computer controlled manuals I have owned I have not used N in normal driving.

[FJ Steve]

FWIW.....

When riding a motorcycle during a rider assessment and you stop at a set of traffic lights and engage neutral and release clutch lever....FAIL.

What you have done is just added (at a minimum) 1.5 seconds to your "get of jail/****" exit route.
When driving the truck at work, I rarely slip the 'box into neutral while waiting at lights. It mucks the synchros around, grinds like whiny biatch when you are able to finally find 2nd (never take off in 1st in this truck). Absolute WOFTAM (Waste of F*cking Time and Money)

[Martin]

When riding a motorcycle during a rider assessment and you stop at a set of traffic lights and engage neutral and release clutch lever....FAIL.

That's a good point - had not occurred to me

[Finance_Analyst]

In the manual for my GTI, it says that you should not leave the DSG in netural...

[Umai Naa!!]

The DSG is essentially a manual gearbox, with electrictronics doing all the work for you. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise (A LOT of people still hark on about kick-down cables and band adjustments with them!).

When you pull up, it engages the clutches like you would with a manual car. Any reason to select neutral offers marginal gains, but is a bit compromise on safety, should you have to make way for an out-of-control motorist, an emergency vehicle on its way to a job, and the like.

[Dutch77]

As above, just assumed it wasn't in gear as such when stationary.. thus the slight pause before it engages first when the foot comes off the brake.

I must admit I used to chuck my old autos into N when banked in significant traffic where the wait was going to be a few minutes, but not on the DSG. May also relate to the fact my commute these days is a couple of minutes and I usually get a green on my one set of lights.

[BrashDaniels]

Re: Put DSG into neutral at the lights?

I did a lot of defensive driver training when I was much younger. I was taught to put the car in neutral, and apply the hand brake, at lights for two reasons. Firstly, it does reduce wear on the gearbox components, and secondly, allows your brake pads not to bind or crack over time from being held together while hot.

Yes, it takes a moment longer to get going, but only if you're not paying attention to the light change. If you pay attention, you're already changing back into drive when the lights are cycling.

I was also taught to apply the hand brake with the button in to reduce ratchet wear (and so as not to warn the naughty corner)

That's only a small part of the training but the points that apply here still hold true because the Fabia still changes back into first faster than I will ever need it too.

Motorcycles are different because their gearboxes are totally different to car gearboxes, so, yes, the technique probably doesn't apply there. But DSG gearboxes are still under strain in drive. I usually only need to tap the foot brake and slip the car into D or S to get going. I would have to be on Mandrax for that to take more than a quarter of a second.

Driving with more than just basic competence takes a lot of concentration, practice, training, and learning about every car you drive. Take the time to do so and you will be a safer driver and a happier one, and you'll probably save a bit of wear and tear on your car while you're at it.

/old fart



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[woofy]

Yeah the button on the parking brake is a pet peeve of mine, I hate the rachet sound and always press the button in. I have a foot brake in my current car though, so no choice, there is no button.

[zei20t]

As above, just assumed it wasn't in gear as such when stationary.. thus the slight pause before it engages first when the foot comes off the brake.

I must admit I used to chuck my old autos into N when banked in significant traffic where the wait was going to be a few minutes, but not on the DSG. May also relate to the fact my commute these days is a couple of minutes and I usually get a green on my one set of lights.

its most certainly in gear when you're stationary, more than likely 1st. the clutches are both disengaged (but I don't think 1st is completely disengaged) so when you release the brake pedal, you creep forward. this is on the DQ250 and DQ500. being a wet clutch system the wear on the clutches is lessened, much like a motorbike.

people complaining about the DSG hesitation on take-off haven't driven a newer-style DSG. I suggest you do so, it will probably surprise you!

Applying the hand/park/emergency brake while in D/S/M will result in the car attempting to take off when you lift off the foot brake. moving to neutral will avoid this.

The clutches are not sprung I believe, they are hydraulically actuated and pushed and pulled. but I guess with movement there is always the potential for wear.

back to the OP, I don't think it matters too much. the only time I shift to neutral and put on the hand brake is when im sitting at lights for a long time and my foot is lazy lol

[Dutch77]

The slight hesitation bothered me for about a second before I adjusted my driving to suit, causes no issues for me now.

From a wiki page on the DSG it states: N position of the floor-mounted shift lever means that the transmission is in "neutral". Similar to P above, both clutch packs and all gear-sets are fully disengaged, however the parking lock is disengaged.

Not that I trust a wiki page to be right.

I had a flick through the US forums to see if there was any further insight, the general view seemed to be it's fine to leave it in D, no harm in N.. so probably just keep doing whatever you are doing now. For the few times you do this (or not do this) in comparison to the overall usage of the gearbox it would seem to be fairly minor.

[donweather]

In the manual for my GTI, it says that you should not leave the DSG in netural...

I think I also read this over on the Tiggy forum at some stage a while back. I'm pretty sure the consensus was NOT to leave it in neutral and/or not to use the handbrake.

[Helldad]

its most certainly in gear when you're stationary, more than likely 1st. the clutches are both disengaged (but I don't think 1st is completely disengaged) so when you release the brake pedal, you creep forward.

The effect I notice when stopped on a level surface and about to start off - either forward or reverse - is that there's a very short delay between releasing the footbrake and the car starting to creep. Very much like the gearbox being in gear with clutch not engaged, and brake release causes clutch engagement. Quite different to the old torque converter effect of dragging the car continuously. I leave it in D while waiting at lights.

[candy_wagon]

In a slight variation to this thread - what about putting the DSG in neutral while coasting down hill to save fuel. I used to do it in my manual XR5 but ave never had the guts to do it in the RS.

Obviously I'm worried about wrecking something in the DSG, but then again, it is essentially an electronically controlled manual gearbox...

[Guest001]

In a slight variation to this thread - what about putting the DSG in neutral while coasting down hill to save fuel. I used to do it in my manual XR5 but ave never had the guts to do it in the RS.

Obviously I'm worried about wrecking something in the DSG, but then again, it is essentially an electronically controlled manual gearbox...

At the rate the discs wear out on Euro cars I would be leaving it in gear..

Remember the truckies rule Same gear down as was used coming up and never use Maori overdrive LOL