Whiteline Anti Lift Kit fitted - Freakin' Awesome!!!

[dodgey]

My current RS traction control works the same as in my previous car. A Golf MkV GTI.

[pologti18t]

Sounds like a throttle controller is needed. 2005 Subaru WRX STi - Import & Tuner Cars - Turbo & High-Tech Performance

[GTR27]

The comments on the Octavia traction control interest me. I have had a couple of moments that were quite frankly a bit scarry. The first time it happened it I couldn't figure out what was going on. The car seemed to be stalling when I really needed it to be moving to clear an intersection I had thought that I had plenty of time to get through before the bus approaching from the side.

My wife has a Golf VI TDI DSG, and in similar circumstances it just goes as one would expect it to do. In fact, it's got a bit of attitude. I'm really hesitant to put myself in a situation where I need to give the RS "some squirt" from a standing start. I feel that I just can't rely on it to respond as I'd like it to. Anyone else feel the same?

This is exactly what i'm talking about. I turn it off if i go near a intersection i may need to get away from quickly.

My old VE V8 Calais would allow a bit of wheelspin (so it didnt bog down) and even some mild drift. Only in very wet/oily conditions and if you totally spanked it would it be noticiable on cut-in. Otherwise i almost never turned it off. The skoda I turn off at least once a fortnight due to the issue above.

[bobski]

I've got a petrol, but FWIW, I've found I can catch the DSG being a bit doughy if I've been tootling around or sometimes I've caught it out as it downshifts, but stalling isn't normal in my experience. Catching it out just means it takes a moment to respond - which is just a turbo trait IMO.

[Rosie]

This is exactly what i'm talking about. I turn it off if i go near a intersection i may need to get away from quickly.

Thanks for the response. At least now I know it's not just me. I hadn't counted on having to turn off the TC every time I need to put the power down in an RS badged car. Especially after enjoying driving my wife's Golf many times in the six months prior to me buying my RS, which has the same basic VW engine, the same VW DSG box, and the same VW TC and stability control systems.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my RS, but it has changed my city driving habits. From a standing start where I consider that I need to act immediately, or not act at all I haven't then got time to reach for the TC switch, turn it off, and put the throttle down. It's either sit tight, or risk getting t-boned, and that is detracting from my overall driving pleasure.

I've got a petrol, but FWIW, I've found I can catch the DSG being a bit doughy if I've been tootling around or sometimes I've caught it out as it downshifts, but stalling isn't normal in my experience. Catching it out just means it takes a moment to respond - which is just a turbo trait IMO.

I've caught mine out on downshifts a couple of times. Usually at lower speeds. Again, it's a bit scarry when the foot goes down when cornering, and instead of the car accellerating it slows down as if it's missed a gear and gone to Neutral. I said "stalling", because that's what it feels like. What happens is a little different. The engine revs up until the limiter cuts in, but the power to the drive train is zero. It's no fun at all, and I don't like reving the guts out of any engine let alone a brand new one. I find I'm going straight to the steering wheel paddles to downshift in some situations rather than trust the car to do it for me.

I'll show my age by saying that I've owned muscle cars that I bought new. Those that have never had a carburetor engined car will never know how fortunate they are not to have had the week to week experience of fault finding and tuning the bloody things. I thought my days of carby flat spots due to faulty accelerator pump plungers were long gone. Obviously that's not the problem with the RS, but the effect on the motion of the car in relation to the throttle position is identical.

"Sounds like a throttle controller is needed."

The one I've used all of my driving life so far without any difficulty is my right foot

[pologti18t]

The one I've used all of my driving life so far without any difficulty is my right foot

True

But the doughy initial throttle response can make people then add too much throttle to compensate. Then, bam, the engine is on boost and suddenly you have more drive then initially expected. Then the TC cuts in and you loose drive and some may add even more throttle... a sort of feedback loop.

[Rosie]

But the doughy initial throttle response can make people then add too much throttle to compensate. Then, bam, the engine is on boost and suddenly you have more drive then initially expected. Then the TC cuts in and you loose drive and some may add even more throttle... a sort of feedback loop.

For sure. I was just attempting to make light of a situation that I really don't find amusing at all. The boost kicks in, the engine revs up to max, then the TC says WTF!, and stops the power through the drive train. All going on while a bus is bearing down on you. Not good.

I've only had the car six months, but think it's time to investigate whether an ECU upgrade, and a Whitleline ALK will help to restore my trust in its ability to respond as I want it to, when I need it to.

[bluefrog]

An ECU upgrade will make it worse not better - more power, same traction. TC comes on because there isn't enough traction, so don't take my word for it but from what I've been able to gather - modifications to tyres, tyre pressures, weight of wheels and/or brakes, suspension, WALK/bushes, and sway bars are all changes that you can make (some much more expensive than others) that will cause less weight to shift towards the rear of the car and increase the front tyre contact .. = less TC : )

[Rosie]

An ECU upgrade will make it worse not better - more power, same traction. TC comes on because there isn't enough traction, so don't take my word for it but from what I've been able to gather - modifications to tyres, tyre pressures, weight of wheels and/or brakes, suspension, WALK/bushes, and sway bars are all changes that you can make (some much more expensive than others) that will cause less weight to shift towards the rear of the car and increase the front tyre contact .. = less TC : )

I noticed after I posted that GTR27, who said is experiencing the same as myself, already has a bluefin ECU mod. When I said I'd investigate an ECU upgrade and ALK I was hoping to see some improvement in the power curves lower down, which may or may not have resulted in the TC allowing the DSG to make faster upshifts to get power to the wheels. After looking at a few of the dyno graphs supplied by various tuning outfits it seems that the increase from factory tuning in hp and torque starts between 1500 and 1800 rpm.

I'm no physics guru, and what you said about more power, same traction makes sense to me. I'll keep digging and talk to some tuners. And I'll be looking into the throttle controllers as mentioned by pologti18t as well. I'm not considering remapping the of DSG itself. I'm not after holding gears longer, or more revs in launch mode, which I've no intention of ever using. Besides, the problem is getting power to the DSG, not what it does with it. I just want to be able to trust the car to move when I want it to without having to anticipate in what situations I'm going to need to switch the TC off.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I think the ALK is a good thing, and got interested in it as a means of getting power to the road. I'll bugger off to the tuning section before I get booted over there.

[pologti18t]

One idea to test is to short shift into 2nd gear earlier....

[GTR27]

I noticed after I posted that GTR27, who said is experiencing the same as myself, already has a bluefin ECU mod. When I said I'd investigate an ECU upgrade and ALK I was hoping to see some improvement in the power curves lower down, which may or may not have resulted in the TC allowing the DSG to make faster upshifts to get power to the wheels. After looking at a few of the dyno graphs supplied by various tuning outfits it seems that the increase from factory tuning in hp and torque starts between 1500 and 1800 rpm.

I'm no physics guru, and what you said about more power, same traction makes sense to me. I'll keep digging and talk to some tuners. And I'll be looking into the throttle controllers as mentioned by pologti18t as well. I'm not considering remapping the of DSG itself. I'm not after holding gears longer, or more revs in launch mode, which I've no intention of ever using. Besides, the problem is getting power to the DSG, not what it does with it. I just want to be able to trust the car to move when I want it to without having to anticipate in what situations I'm going to need to switch the TC off.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I think the ALK is a good thing, and got interested in it as a means of getting power to the road. I'll bugger off to the tuning section before I get booted over there.

Also note, I have a manual, not a DSG. Didnt notice any difference with the bluefin in TC terms - stock it still seemed very intrusive. What I generally do now is I will take off sort of quick, short shift to second, turn, get the wheel almost straight, then flatten it and that seems to semi get around the problem. Turning the TC off is actually easy - there is one intersection I go to every day that depending on what time of day I get there depends if i turn it off or not. as I approach the intersection, I just hold the button down and it flicks off after 3 (i think) secs. I then come to a stop and i'm ready to go. Obviously get some wheelspin, however can take off MUCH faster - but have to modulate the throttle when boost comes on to not have loads of wheelspin - basically just light spin and max acceleration.

[Rosie]

One idea to test is to short shift into 2nd gear earlier....

Also note, I have a manual, not a DSG. Didnt notice any difference with the bluefin in TC terms - stock it still seemed very intrusive. What I generally do now is I will take off sort of quick, short shift to second, turn, get the wheel almost straight, then flatten it and that seems to semi get around the problem. Turning the TC off is actually easy - there is one intersection I go to every day that depending on what time of day I get there depends if i turn it off or not. as I approach the intersection, I just hold the button down and it flicks off after 3 (i think) secs. I then come to a stop and i'm ready to go. Obviously get some wheelspin, however can take off MUCH faster - but have to modulate the throttle when boost comes on to not have loads of wheelspin - basically just light spin and max acceleration.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm going to try both. It's not a problem everytime I drive the car, but it's a problem none the less. I don't think the ECU and ALK mods will have any effect on the TC behavoiur, but I'll probably do both for their own benefits anyhow. After all, too much horsepower is rarely ever enough.

[woofy]

Just keep in mind that in most states taking off like that with wheelspin = Hoon law separation from your car now. I've had a few friends lose theirs over less, it's a pretty arbitrary law and usually the police throw in some tyresmoke that wasn't there to make sure it sticks.

I use to have an 82 Meteor that was atrocious for front grip, I would spin the wheels on steep hills in the rain pretty much everytime just trying to get it to move, better tyres/suspension never helped so under todays laws my "high powered" Meteor would be impounded on every rainy day.

[bluefrog]

ok I got WALK (specifically part KCA316) installed on the Golf R .. of course the Octy will need it much more than the R, but I've read that it's one of the more useful modifications for the R so decided to give it a go. Once I get to do some cornering at serious speeds I'll be able to comment on its effectiveness : )





"Whiteline Anti Lift Kit (WALK) is designed to add 0.5 deg static positive caster to both front wheels while changing the nature of front anti-dive & lift. The low compliance bush also maintain higher dynamic positive castor. By changing the front control arm geometry - the new alloy mounts coupled with the new low compliance polyurethane bushes change front suspension attitude. This leads to superior traction under power including cornering & dramatically reducing understeer & front wheel spin. The additional castor coupled with the new firmer bushes supplied serve to dramatically sharpen initial turn-in response then forcing more consistent alignment angles through the corner due to the reduced bush compliance."

[woofy]

Why do I get the impression that in 6mths time you will be posting that your tyres are wearing oddly and you need new ones.....