Easy Upgrades For My New A4???

[coby]

So ... hearsay is evidence, is it? K&N give an engine LIFETIME GUARANTEE ... the buyer is protected and they wouldn't do that if they were not confident in their product.

I've used one (with great results) for over 2 years and I have yet to see ANY validated proof that this claim is warranted.

Dave

No I said (wrote or whatever) NOT ONLY hear say.
A few people have had trouble with K&N in the past with forced induction 5 cylinders - an example here - I know, hear say as it may be to you

I think trying to get money out of K&N would be near impossible seeings how they could just blame it on anything else in the engine bay. It would never be their fault. They would always be pretty safe with this "guarantee".

Just a thought, do k&n claim a performance increase? How do you think this would be achievable? Less superior filtration perhaps? There are actually independent tests floating around the net that prove this aswell.

[Golf Houso]

Utter nonsense! I'm sick of hearing this b/s bandied around as though it's fact when it is not. It will only 'stuff up' your MAF if you OVER-OIL it when cleaning it. The K&N product is excellent and their instructions are both easy to follow and extremely clear on how much you should or should NOT oil your filter.

Dave

K&N's entire reputation is based around the reliability and quality of their product. Even if 0.1% of their filters cased MAF failures that would mean that they would have close to 10,000 payable warranty claims per year, just even hiring staff to deal with the case not to mention to potential court cases and industrial ombudsman issues would send K&N either into the red or dramatically cut margins.

If all this jive about K&N was true they would not be in business today, look at the logic, look at the facts and look at how large organisations in a world market would work, and you will see how unlikely not to mention ludicrous these claims of engine and electrical damage caused by K&N filters are....

[DaveMack]

No I said (wrote or whatever) NOT ONLY hear say.
A few people have had trouble with K&N in the past with forced induction 5 cylinders - an example here - I know, hear say as it may be to you

I think trying to get money out of K&N would be near impossible seeings how they could just blame it on anything else in the engine bay. It would never be their fault. They would always be pretty safe with this "guarantee".

Just a thought, do k&n claim a performance increase? How do you think this would be achievable? Less superior filtration perhaps? There are actually independent tests floating around the net that prove this aswell.

We try to deal in provable (documented) facts in this forum. You might tell me your car makes 140kw at the wheels ... I'd ask to see the dyno sheet.

We try not to indulge in claims that cannot be proven without impirical evidence ... and this slur on K&N has been going on for years - they're still in business ... stronger than ever, because they build and distribute (globally) fine products.

I don't want to hear about some mother's uncle's 5 cylinder anything UNLESS THERE IS DOCUMENTED PROOF. Anything less and he/she is covering up mis-management of filter maintenance and probably thought: "If a little oil is good ... lots must be better." Now you see ... that statment of mine is speculation ... not proof.

And then you try and muddy the waters claiming that their performance isn't up to claims ... AGAIN ... WITHOUT PROOF. But wait ... there's more ... not satified with two slanderous (and unproven) approaches ... you go for a third: "You'd be lucky to get anything out of them in a claim." What is it, son ... blow up your car by stuffing up an oiled filter and now taking it out on K&N and the world?

Dave

[Transporter]

Utter nonsense! I'm sick of hearing this b/s bandied around as though it's fact when it is not. It will only 'stuff up' your MAF if you OVER-OIL it when cleaning it. The K&N product is excellent and their instructions are both easy to follow and extremely clear on how much you should or should NOT oil your filter.

Dave

Come on mate he said only "it may stuff up MAF sensor" he didn't say it will.

No need to declare the war.

Plus he might be right. And yes the companies will give the lifetime warranties on their product because they are insured againts that and if they make $1.00 profit they do anything for it. Even give lifetime warranty.

[coby]

We try to deal in provable (documented) facts in this forum. You might tell me your car makes 140kw at the wheels ... I'd ask to see the dyno sheet.

We try not to indulge in claims that cannot be proven without impirical evidence ... and this slur on K&N has been going on for years - they're still in business ... stronger than ever, because they build and distribute (globally) fine products.

I don't want to hear about some mother's uncle's 5 cylinder anything UNLESS THERE IS DOCUMENTED PROOF. Anything less and he/she is covering up mis-management of filter maintenance and probably thought: "If a little oil is good ... lots must be better." Now you see ... that statment of mine is speculation ... not proof.

And then you try and muddy the waters claiming that their performance isn't up to claims ... AGAIN ... WITHOUT PROOF. But wait ... there's more ... not satified with two slanderous (and unproven) approaches ... you go for a third: "You'd be lucky to get anything out of them in a claim." What is it, son ... blow up your car by stuffing up an oiled filter and now taking it out on K&N and the world?

Dave

I didn't mean to offend anyone with any of my statements, although it seems as though I may have. I appologise if I did.

My other link was a personal experience, which I believe (this doesn't mean everyone has to), isn't that what forums are about, sharing personal experience?

An example of what I thought the intentions of forums were; if someone told you that certain tires performed better than others that they had previously tried, would you consider that it may be a superior tire? Or would you wait for specific tread and rubber tested results to be released for your specific car before you bought more tires? Merely an example of believing personal experience.

Possibly not the best independent test, but interesting reading none the less. Link

[DaveMack]

I didn't mean to offend anyone with any of my statements, although it seems as though I may have. I appologise if I did.

My other link was a personal experience, which I believe (this doesn't mean everyone has to), isn't that what forums are about, sharing personal experience?

You're both right (Coby and MRL T5) ... I overstepped the mark and I unreservedly apologise. With my previous post, it was late, I was tired and I've been around long enough that I should not have 'gone off' on you like that, Coby. It's just ... everytime someone mentions K&N ... it's like an automatic reflex, up comes the 'It'll stuff your MAF' line and I've seen it so often without proof that my auto-reaction stepped in.

So ... I'll rephrase ... 'Statements have often been made that K&N oiled filters might stuff up your MAF, but this forum is unaware of any impirical evidence that this has happened.'

Dave

[vinderliker]

Will the K&N filter stuff up the MAF in my carbie? hehe
sorry had to lighten things up

[Dub_Star_V6]

DaveMack, I don't know what it is either about people blaming K&Ns for failing MAFs ($hits me to tears, too) but good on you for your clarification.

So to help vinderliker lighten the mood a bit more, can everyone please remember...





Let's get back on topic, gents.

[Bug_racer]

K & N

Firstly I'll stick to the original topic and answer a few questions :

A Giac chip is still $1100+gst

The engine ecu will try and react to extra boost in the system , it usually has a tolerance of up to about 12psi before it hits limp mode . It will run extremely run due to request vs expected boost being so far apart and not running close to the maps of where it should be , throwing in more fuel to cool down combustion chamber temperature . It can go into full limp mode as well , but that can vary .


Now , Im a strong disbeleiver in the K&N . Why :

When I worked for the factory race team we basically went out to Wakefield park and played around with air intake set-ups . Being N/A this is one area where we could gain power if its done correctly . We could have just dynoed the car , but we needed real world situations on the racetrack and not on a dyno . The K&N pod filter was a full second slower around the track consistantly than the stock set-up . The Panel filter wasnt much better . Basically it may give you a bit more power on the dyno and sound a bit better , but when it came down to consistantly giving airflow at upper rpms the fact that the standard air filter has a greater surface area it basically came out on top . We never did get to test the BMC , although I think that it probably would have came out on top , but the setup we had worked .

As for the oil on MAF issue , Ive changed more MAFs with K&N filters than ones without . I believe that the gain made with the filter could be better spent elsewhere .

[mikk@]

well iv got the BMC air intake kit in another car which i will be selling soon, so might be an optio to give that a try over the POD set up. I do think however, that space migh be an issue with the BMC. i will try take some pice of the current set up to illustrate..

[Jmac]

My personal opinion is that the K and N filter isnt worth the $$$$. Now all that said i have had them in most of the Audis and Vw i have owned, mostly been there when i bought them. Never had any significant gains felt . IMO the K and N reduces the need to service the airfilter and has less chance of blocking. Truth be told you will no doubt feel a difference when you change your original filter at service. There has been reports that the K and N had big gaps in the weave and actually lowered its filtration properties. I personally would spend my coin on something else and make sure i changed my original filter at the correct interval. Ok on the noise side of things thats a different story if thats what you want well on some applications it will give you that much loved throat, The 57I induction pod is a fine unit for producing this. Remember something to add to this the more noise you want the more fuel you burn. One last thing i have also 1st hand experienced a Vauxhall Cavalier GSI (Uk Spec Opel) have a lean out condition and do a piston and was blamed on the 57I kit causing lean out.
So there are pros and cons
My 2c
Cheers
JMac

[Dub_Star_V6]

I ran a full BMC induction kit and filter in my '95 Barina GSi and a 57i in my '02 Astra SRi, and apart from the amazing noise, SOP (Seat of the Pants) dyno said no real power gains from using a pod or oiled 'high flow' filter element.

And despite never having had issues with them, I stopped using K&N/pod-type filters quite a while ago and actually ran an A'Pexi dry element filter in my Subaru, even going to the extent of changing the whole induction set-up to an OEM Gen 2 airbox and inlet assembly, simply because it was a far more efficient design than the Gen 1 and bolted straight in.

Remember that oftentimes, the restriction is in the actual design and efficiency of the inlet and airbox, not at the filter. So dropping in a K&N means you're really just throwing your money away.

JMac (the voice of reason) is right: save your money, use genuine filters and you should never have any issues anyway.

[Jmac]

Exactly right and fully agree with the modification of induction and not just plonking a filter in, why do you think the Polo guys are jumping at Seat intake pipes - exactly that - less restriction and yes many may say this is why we fit Kand N but like i mentioned before that may be true but a standard clean filter does the same just needs to be replaced. Hold up a K and N filter to the light and it has holes. Now dirt doesnt have a built in guide to miss the holes. Never a truer statement it is generally the Airfilter housing or piping to it where the restriction lies and not the filter. Way too much money for what you dont get.
Anyway i think thats clear enough and sorry about the rant but feel its justified. Not knocking anyone fitting the filters by the way.
Cheers
JMac

[Dub_Star_V6]

A new filter doesn't have to mean an aftermarket pod.

[PeDiES]

next he will be saying he wants to put a bov on
Ive heard of oiled filters killing maf's altough not k&n specifically. if you put a pod filter in another problem you have is cooling the ingintion amplifier properly, otherwise id keep a spare in the boot.
a good diverter valve is a must as the bosch one is prone to leak, especially with a chip. and if you really want a big whoosh like a bov then get a forge splitter diverter.
You can chip it but if you willing to put in a few extra dollars you could probably throw a k04 on for around 5g's.