Brisbane Dyno Day Results

[shaneth]

What the heck

your bickering over measly 2kw?

I would put it down to the Tyres your car is wearing and the pressure you are running in the driven wheels.. all these effect dyno results!

What he is talking bout is that [Polo GTI] has only flash, where he has flash, dump pipe and forge tip.
Now on many other dynos when you add a dump pipe it has been good for roughly 10kw extra.
Im guessing that is wht he ment mate.

How do you know it was reading low?

Has he run on that exact same dyno before.. with the same weather conditions?

has it read higher..?

Those HSVs never produce exactly what their power labels claim..

never!

How do you know, well quite few of the cars that had been dynoed before ran lower on this one, But not all 2 dynos will read the same.

in queensland the weather conditions dont vary, infact it would have been cooler on this run then the previous where he has a dyno printout of 295kw@w or something like that.

Also the first MPS6 to run ran 10kw under what he ran a month or so ago on the same dyno. Not sure about the barometric pressures etc but its definitely cooler this day and he was at 8:30 in the morning as well.

Having said that alot of cars ran what was expected like 122 from a flash only polo and most of the mps3 ran about right. SO who knows.

[ranton-inc]

What he is talking bout is that [Polo GTI] has only flash, where he has flash, dump pipe and forge tip.
Now on many other dynos when you add a dump pipe it has been good for roughly 10kw extra.
Im guessing that is wht he ment mate.

I understand that.. however what it has probably done is actually killed HP later in the rev range and added a more heaped and even torque curve.. you need to overlay the dynos point for point to understand what and where exactly the car has benifited from modifications


How do you know, well quite few of the cars that had been dynoed before ran lower on this one, But not all 2 dynos will read the same.

in queensland the weather conditions dont vary, infact it would have been cooler on this run then the previous where he has a dyno printout of 295kw@w or something like that.

Also the first MPS6 to run ran 10kw under what he ran a month or so ago on the same dyno. Not sure about the barometric pressures etc but its definitely cooler this day and he was at 8:30 in the morning as well.

Having said that alot of cars ran what was expected like 122 from a flash only polo and most of the mps3 ran about right. SO who knows.


Exactly as i have stated above

no to dynos read identical hence why if you want to dyno you need to dyno on the same dynomometer with similar atmospheric conditions on the day.. a good dyno place will save your cars dyno read out and all the measured variables that can adversly affect the end reading.


and about the holdens

explain to me why in many cases the VE SSV rears higher or similar numbers to that of the HSV variant on the same dyno on the same day.. yet holden state the HSV is the 307 and the SSV is differnt again!

i think at the end of the day you guys have got to stress less with regards to the results! sure its great having the higher power figures etc etc etc.. but if your car drives like a POS then what is the point? they are road cars not race cars..

i think the biggest benefit of a dyno day is actually proving that the vehicles engine isnt running either too rich or too lean..

or if its missing boost.. or if its having flat spots in the rev range that are otherwise undetectable.

also checking if the car is pinking predetonating / what ever.

if the Automated A/F control systems are functioning correctly ie making the transition from open loop to controlled AF levels etc..

maybe im just blabbing for nothing.. but i think some of you are missing the important point here..

[ranton-inc]

I was wondering what sort of effect this was likely to have, as I have nitrous in my tyrers the guys running the Dnyo were unable to alter the pressure.

It seems the other cars were running much higher PSI?

possibly

as lower psi

in a real world situation is better for grip when corning (to an extent)

"for every action there is a reaction" theory

but on a dyno it would create more drag or what ever you call it on the rollers.. which really if you think about it.. its probably the more acurate figure to take at the end of the day.

[Guy_H]

im sorry. but i feel sorry for the 2 S3 to recieve such a poor tune, that the actual dyno operator had to shut their dyno down because it was running lean! with a properly tuned software you generally never need to do such a drastic move.
and i think those figures are below stock, isnt it?

and COME ON APR! the stock mazda mps killed the S3!!!!

Lol - because they ran the same AFR as a stock Polo did? - There was nothing wrong with the S3's - seems the only thing wrong was the operator expecting to see a Japanese tuned style AFR, not an ME7 style AFR.

Unfortunately I was not there, I would have happily run Both those S3's for 10 minutes under WOT very safely with those AFR's - Here is a dyno done back 5 years ago on a car that's still running perfectly today - showing the exact same AFR's - why do you think its a poor tune? (Noting its your only post since Novemeber trying to organise a melbourne dyno day?)

[Guy_H]

Sorry I couldnt make it on the weekend, but looks like everyone had good runs (exept the aborted S3's ones) - most of the figures look pretty much right!

Not much you can tell about all the Polo's without Data logs, remember an increase of 5 degrees on the intake side (after the intercooler - NOT in the airbox) can mean - 5kw.

Now - what about that red Oettinger / APR GTI Golf pulling 203kw @ the wheels - Who forgot about that? Put those Mazda's in their place.

Go the Volkswagens

[Guy_H]

Ok, the main is video is finished...finally...and I've uploaded it to YouTube to go have a look at.

I will upload the individual dyno runs for each car tomorrow and send those links too.

Anyways: YouTube Video

Enjoy.

Broady

Excellent work mate!

[Guy_H]

was great day to catch up with all you guys.

not sure where to post pics so here are some..

"only 30kW difference.."

My Favorite!

[ranton-inc]

WTH

how is 13:1 a bad a/f

[VW GTI]

Now - what about that red Oettinger / APR GTI Golf pulling 203kw @ the wheels - Who forgot about that? Put those Mazda's in their place.

Was good to watch. When's the 300kw kit go in?

[RhysQ]

The Rears do run but have a lag in initiating due to the electronic control over the system

They do have drive.

Pre Face Lift S3's and Standard MKIV R32s have no problems running on the dyno! they came with good haldex computers

However Face Lift S3s thou they came with better suspention they seemed to get a crap Haldex controller which caused the front wheels to launch off then the rears to engage really late which then wreaks complete havoc with the balance of the car when its on the dyno and it bucks around before settling and then cleanly accelerating to red line (provided its not running lean and pinking)

WTH?



What the heck

your bickering over measly 2kw?

I would put it down to the Tyres your car is wearing and the pressure you are running in the driven wheels.. all these effect dyno results!



How do you know it was reading low?

Has he run on that exact same dyno before.. with the same weather conditions?

has it read higher..?

Those HSVs never produce exactly what their power labels claim..

never!

hitman,

i think fair enough that people are confused about the results of some cars, mainly mine compared to jasn78 and tosspot....which i was very surprised at. but as mentioned earlier, tosspot (sam) literally rocked up at the workshop and rolled pretty much straight onto the dyno (no time to cool), not before getting his tyres pumped up of course, which brings me to my next point; all cars that ran that day had their tyres set to 40psi for a uniformity throughout the range (as stated on our printouts). and really, i don't think the type of tyres you are wearing are really going to affect performance on a dyno run, but performance from a standing launch on the road, definitely.

i think sam is fine to 'bicker', i certainly would be if i spent all that money on gear and a polo with just the chip tipped me, however the chances are that it comes down to the fact that my car had been cooling for 4 hours and he had just got there. there is probably no doubt that if we got there at the same time the results would have been different.

moving on, have you watched EVERY SINGLE dyno run a HSV GTS has ever had, no. a close friend of mine went to a holden dyno day here on the gold coast (in nerang i think it was) and you'll never guess what, a stock HVS GTS hopped on and pulled it's quoted figure, to the bloody kW (obviously it was a figure at the wheels at not at the fly, but it was worked out to be on the money). now i don't know whether it was the weather conditions, fuel, or whatever, but a lot of people apparently had doubt and yes, were surprised that it held up to what it was meant to be. but it was done.

As you are a man of quotes... "never say never".

as for the bickering thing, you are definitely calling the kettle black, you certainly have a lot to whinge about, especially for someone who wasn't even there on the day.

if people have thoughts and comments about their runs and others, then so be it, they don't need to be shut down at every opportunity.

Cheers,
Rhys

[Guy_H]

Was good to watch. When's the 300kw kit go in?

Hey Sam,

When our new test car arrives in a couple of weeks, it is actually going on the A3 first, then this kit is coming off & going onto the new test car & then we will have one on this red GTI ! -

Busted knuckles coming up

[Sharkie]

Guy, can you give us a breakdown on whats in the Golf at the moment?

I can feel a 3dr GTI needing to find a home in my garage after seeing that impressive run.

[Sharkie]

Dyno Day Results from a Polo GTI perspective

IMO the Dyno was running about 4-5kw low on the Polo's compared to the averages achieved around the country to date. This could be due to a number of factors and I'm not going to speculate as to why. Sufficient to say that a number of the (other) cars there ran higher numbers only weeks before either on the same dyno or on different ones.

Interesting also to note that the FMIC Polo's all ran 3 runs with a slight increase in power for each consecutive run whereas the std IC cars all dropped slightly in power with each consecutive run.

Ralphk 139.5kw
APR ECU
K04 Turbo
APR FMIC
APR Exhaust
Stock intake (std TIP, std intake, std air filter)
Stock diverter
Lightened flywheel
LSD
16" Std rims
=> Stock intake could be a severe restriction with the K04. Breathing properly could liberate another 5-10kw.

Eddy 130.8kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
APR FMIC
APR Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, SEAT intake, K&N air filter)
APR R1 diverter
Lightened flywheel
LSD
16" Std rims
=> I was expecting about 135kw from this setup.

Sharkie 127.6kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
Custom FMIC
Stock Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, SEAT intake, K&N air filter)
Custom diverter
Std flywheel
16" Std rims
=> I was expecting about 133kw and will dyno again on another dyno with the exact same setup.

[-Polo GTI-] 122.2kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
Stock IC
Stock Exhaust
Stock intake (std TIP, std intake, std air filter) - presumed did not check
Custom BOV
Std flywheel
17" aftermarket rims - tyre size would be interesting to know.
=> This setup is known to run about 125kw with 16" rims on Dyno's all round Oz

Tosspot 120.9kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
Stock IC
Custom Exhaust (APR downpipe)
Custom intake (Forge TIP, std intake, std air filter)
stock diverter
Std flywheel
17" VW optional rims - tyre size would be interesting to know.
=> Was driven straight onto the Dyno from a 15min run from home. 3rd run was around 118kw, heatsoak the likely culprit.

Jasn78 120.3kw
Oettinger ECU (Alex assured me the file used is the same as the APR file)
Stock turbo
Custom FMIC
Custom Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, SEAT intake, BMC air filter)
APR R1 diverter
Std flywheel
17" Aftermarket rims
=> I was expecting about 130kw, similar to Eddy, either that exhaust is the culprit or more likely a boost leak somewhere.

Shaneth 88kw
Stock ECU
Stock turbo
Stock IC
Stock Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, std intake, std air filter)
stock diverter
Std flywheel
16" Std rims
=> Std Polo's should do on average 93kw and its widely accepted that the Forge TIP does not add power, merely help the breathing at higher RPM

Based on [-Polo GTI-] & Shaneth's figures I'm guessing the Dyno ran 4-5kw low on the Polo's.

All in all at least it compared the Polo's to each other under the same conditions.

Time to arrange another Dyno day .... ?

[Guy_H]

Guy, can you give us a breakdown on whats in the Golf at the moment?

I can feel a 3dr GTI needing to find a home in my garage after seeing that impressive run.

Hey Sharkie, Engine wise is has just this kit:

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/new_turbo_k04.html

which we rate at "98 RON Performance = 237kw and 453Nm" - I still have the oettinger larger intercooler, not the APR one in, so there is probably another few kw's in it too.

You will have to take it for a spin, its sooo smooth!

[Guy_H]

Dyno Day Results from a Polo GTI perspective

IMO the Dyno was running about 4-5kw low on the Polo's compared to the averages achieved around the country to date. This could be due to a number of factors and I'm not going to speculate as to why. Sufficient to say that a number of the (other) cars there ran higher numbers only weeks before either on the same dyno or on different ones.

Interesting also to note that the FMIC Polo's all ran 3 runs with a slight increase in power for each consecutive run whereas the std IC cars all dropped slightly in power with each consecutive run.

Ralphk 139.5kw
APR ECU
K04 Turbo
APR FMIC
APR Exhaust
Stock intake (std TIP, std intake, std air filter)
Stock diverter
Lightened flywheel
LSD
16" Std rims
=> Stock intake could be a severe restriction with the K04. Breathing properly could liberate another 5-10kw.

Eddy 130.8kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
APR FMIC
APR Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, SEAT intake, K&N air filter)
APR R1 diverter
Lightened flywheel
LSD
16" Std rims
=> I was expecting about 135kw from this setup.

Sharkie 127.6kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
Custom FMIC
Stock Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, SEAT intake, K&N air filter)
Custom diverter
Std flywheel
16" Std rims
=> I was expecting about 133kw and will dyno again on another dyno with the exact same setup.

[-Polo GTI-] 122.2kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
Stock IC
Stock Exhaust
Stock intake (std TIP, std intake, std air filter) - presumed did not check
Custom BOV
Std flywheel
17" aftermarket rims - tyre size would be interesting to know.
=> This setup is known to run about 125kw with 16" rims on Dyno's all round Oz

Tosspot 120.9kw
APR ECU
Stock turbo
Stock IC
Custom Exhaust (APR downpipe)
Custom intake (Forge TIP, std intake, std air filter)
stock diverter
Std flywheel
17" VW optional rims - tyre size would be interesting to know.
=> Was driven straight onto the Dyno from a 15min run from home. 3rd run was around 118kw, heatsoak the likely culprit.

Jasn78 120.3kw
Oettinger ECU (Alex assured me the file used is the same as the APR file)
Stock turbo
Custom FMIC
Custom Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, SEAT intake, BMC air filter)
APR R1 diverter
Std flywheel
17" Aftermarket rims
=> I was expecting about 130kw, similar to Eddy, either that exhaust is the culprit or more likely a boost leak somewhere.

Shaneth 88kw
Stock ECU
Stock turbo
Stock IC
Stock Exhaust
Custom intake (Forge TIP, std intake, std air filter)
stock diverter
Std flywheel
16" Std rims
=> Std Polo's should do on average 93kw and its widely accepted that the Forge TIP does not add power, merely help the breathing at higher RPM

Based on [-Polo GTI-] & Shaneth's figures I'm guessing the Dyno ran 4-5kw low on the Polo's.

All in all at least it compared the Polo's to each other under the same conditions.

Time to arrange another Dyno day .... ?

For comparison, here is our old Polo graph of stock vs software only which is reading about 5kw more than what the boy's saw: