Volkswagen to abandon DSG for future light cars

[ziggyboy]

Volkswagen - Future light Volkswagens may drop DSG | GoAuto

Furthermore, the senior engineer explained that city car drivers prefer the instantaneous take-off acceleration as well as the reduced noise/vibration/harshness properties provided by the torque converter automatic transmission applications.

This is especially true for North American and Chinese consumers, who seem to have distaste for the DSG’s operational characteristics.

So... they've finally admitted that the DSG has its downsides. I've always found it to be rough and unsettled so I never understood why people always raved about it being "smooth". VW senior engineers themselves say that it has "harsh" properties.

[hoi polloi]

While not as "smooth" as a torque converter auto I wouldn't describe mine as harsh... Yes, I do drive my DSG slightly differently to my work car (a conventional auto) but nothing drastic...

The very smoothness of a conventional auto is due in part to the damping provided by the fluid in the torque converter itself... The downside of this is that engine power is wasted in sloshing around auto-transmission fluid - more so in the city when the torque-converter would be "locked-up" less of the time compared to say on the motorway... It'll be interesting to see what happens to the performance / economy figures of their cars if they do this...

- Anthony

[Tobes_WIR35]

I think the reason why some people think that the DSG is harsh is in part due to the fact that they don't understand how it works, therefore don't understand how to drive it.

It's at it's smoothest when it's being belted.

[mmmRacer]

A DSG gearbox is designed for figures on a spec sheet so to grab buyers attention. It is guaranteed to improve your 0-100m times and improve your fuel economy. The downside however is that it is not as smooth as a conventional auto and it may possibly increase oil consumption.

After 6 months with my DSG I have learn to live with it but I would still prefer a normal manual gearbox. When a normal manual gearbox is mated to a 1.4 litre motor it just gives you the control to keep the car in the most suitable gear all the time so that you will be able to enjoy everyday daily rather then have a DSG gearbox that keeps trying to changing gears at 2000 rpm to save fuel unless you put the foot down which of course causes wheel spin.

[ParaBul]

There's DSG boxes and DSG boxes.

My first drive of a DSG was a Combo, that I drove from Adelaide to Roxby Downs and back. I didn't realise that it wasn't a conventional auto, and thought the vehicle drove pretty well.

The first DSG that I drove knowingly was a Mk6 diesel - either Comfortline or GTD, I don't remember which I drove first. Either way, I didn't notice anything that deterred me from buying one (I bought a cancelled order that happened to have DSG - I would've been equally happy to buy a conventional manual).

Since purchase, I had a Jetta with the 7 speed dry clutch as a loan car, and I thought it was horrible. I wouldn't buy one of those. If somebody wants a DSG, and is prepared to "drive accordingly" then good luck to them. Most people who buy an automatic want something they don't have to think about - get in, start the engine, use the "Go" and "Stop" pedals. They're not interested in "the right technique" to drive their gearbox - they bought an "auto" precisely so they didn't need to.

More recently, I've bought a late model Pajero with the diesel auto, with which I am very happy - for a large, turbo-diesel automatic 4wd, the Pajero is considered one of the better combinations. Obviously there's a significant difference in power to weight ratio, but the DSG Golf is (in my opinion) much nicer to drive around town. If I had to choose between the DSG driving experience (in my GTD) and the auto driving experience (in my Pajero), I'd take the DSG every time.

[sVWatt]

Lots of opinions on DSG. I would add I love it. Smooth, responsive and fun. Polo was flawed. Golf is excellent. Other manufacturers have same system under different names. If and when I upgrade i'd be looking for a similar setup.

[Ryan_R]

Yeah I'd never buy a dry clutch DSG again, I believe the Ford Focus and Alfa Romeo hatch use them as well from memory.

And the wet-clutch DSGs just aren't 'cheap' enough to justify putting in a 'cheap' car. (Part costs + DSG oil change service)

[Umai Naa!!]

I think the reason why some people think that the DSG is harsh is in part due to the fact that they don't understand how it works, therefore don't understand how to drive it.

It's at it's smoothest when it's being belted.

Couldn't agree more.

I for one, like the DSGs.

[Diesel_vert]

There were many who predicted the demise of the petrol engine before it was thrown back into contention with the integration of direct-injection, forced-induction, low-viscosity lubricants, and numerous other refinements and efficiency gains, which closed the gap to diesel engines.

Likewise, I expect the torque converter automatic will undergo similar game-changing improvements. The very impressive 8-speed auto from ZF is a good example of this, and if other transmission manufacturers are on the path of producing something similar, then the torque converter auto (in one form or another) will still be with us for a while yet, especially in vehicle segments and/or markets where low NVH is important.

[Barracuda]

Lots of opinions on DSG. I would add I love it. Smooth, responsive and fun. Polo was flawed. Golf is excellent. Other manufacturers have same system under different names. If and when I upgrade i'd be looking for a similar setup.

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think the Polo's DSG is flawed? I agree with you when it comes to the Polo GTI mated with a 7 Speed Dry Clutch - that was a bad decision. But the 77TSI with the 7 Speed Dry Clutch is a gorgeous combination.

I do agree that, in order to drive the DSG smoothly, you have to understand how it 'thinks' and learn its 'behaviour' over time. Once you do, it's a gorgeous box to drive. I enjoy my DSG 95% of the time. Just not in stop-start traffic.

[Ryan_R]

Just not in stop-start traffic.

Isn't' that the big flaw?

[Barracuda]

Isn't' that the big flaw?

But that seems to affect Golf's, too. It's not a Polo-specific issue.

[wai]

I think the reason why some people think that the DSG is harsh is in part due to the fact that they don't understand how it works, therefore don't understand how to drive it.

It's at it's smoothest when it's being belted.

Not sure about being "belted" but you do need to be positive with it. If you try and "baby" it, then the control system can end up not knowing quite what to do and this is what causes problems.

After all, a manual clutch is a dry clutch, so there should be no issues with a dry clutch DSG.

It is down to the control system. Essentially, there should be no slipping or partial engagement in anything other than 1st gear. After all, if driving a manual, you would not be doing this. Unfortunately in an attempt to be everything to everyone, VW have chosen to make it too much like a torque converter transmission with the results you see.

[Guest001]

Didn't they advise in some foreign market that the 7 spd was not suitable for stop start city driving like in taxis etc.
If I remember correctly it was in some European countries and India

We had the Polo recall done last week and it doesn't feel any different, but then it was ok before they did it anyway

[Ryan_R]

But that seems to affect Golf's, too. It's not a Polo-specific issue.

Yeah I've got a Golf - I meant the flaw of the 'cheaper' dry-clutch DSG