Group buys - legalities

[Bug_racer]

Im curious with all these group buys happening to unregistered businesses what are the legal implications for VW Watercooled if they decided to take the money and run ? Or if something else was to happen ?

[G-rig]

Re: Group buys - legalities

I don't know the answer but don't see why VWWC would be responsible for group buys and no one pays them any form of insurance etc. It should be up to the person organising the group buy to determine reliable sellers but even then no guarantees. Seen it happen a few times with those chinese knock-offs where people lost their money with Oscar on the GolfMKV forums, then Rob/Auspack disappearing on the AVC units so there goes your warranty etc.

It's a case of 'buy at your own risk' as most people are happy to do so to get the discount. I'm sure people would prefer to spend it locally if merchants accomodated the group buy and included warranty. May not be as cheap but could be a bit more competitive.

Usually there is too much stuffing around anyway.

[Arctra]

My take is that VWWatercooled are simply facilitating a communication medium for those who wish to organise the group buys. It is not the administrators responsibility to ensure every transaction or activity that occurs on the forum is legal, genuine, etc.

I am sure there are smarter legal types on the forum that can give an educated opinion though, as I am basing my opinion on nothing more than common sense (which seems less and less common these days )

[dylan8]

Pretty sure VWW cover them selfs from not only GBs but also the for sale/wanted to buy section. I remember reading it that they take no responsibility.

[Jarred]

it's the same thing as if someone were to buy parts off the forum and have them not get delivered etc, buyer discression advised. I don't think it's any different for group buys. I seem to recall something in the rules section about buying and selling & VWW's part when things go pear shaped.

[Bug_racer]

My take is that VWWatercooled are simply facilitating a communication medium for those who wish to organise the group buys. It is not the administrators responsibility to ensure every transaction or activity that occurs on the forum is legal, genuine, etc.

The only issue there is that they take money for sponsership by a business . Whats saying this isnt a loophole for a private person to make money on the side without paying for sponsership ? You dont have to be a regustered business , in fact you could be giving thousands of dollars to someone who has your details and you may only know them as a name on a forum ???

[qsilverza]

The other problem to group buys, is if you bring them in and ship them out you may be liable for legal action down the track if it causes an accident bla bla.

[goodfella]

First and foremost, my interpretation is that Group buys are simply a function of the community helping its members for mutual benefit - the goal is not profiteering. Put simply it provides cheaper components through bulk purchase for each particitpant than they could obtain individually. There are many things a GB cannot give - immediacy of supply, assistance with the fitting of parts, etc - it's these services that local businesses provide as a value-add, and for which it is entirely appropriate that they charge a reasonable fee for.

Im curious with all these group buys happening to unregistered businesses what are the legal implications for VW Watercooled if they decided to take the money and run ? Or if something else was to happen ?

There's nothing to stop a registered business (who can simply be a sole trader) from doing this either. Rob and I are running a GB at the moment, and have previous hosted several GBs with a combined worth well over $10k. To date, we are certain those who participated will attest to how honest, open and transparent we were during the whole process, and how they all got exactly what they paid for.

... in fact you could be giving thousands of dollars to someone who has your details and you may only know them as a name on a forum ???

I'd like to think that people are a little more responsible and diligent to just give 1000's away without some common sense. Having said this, people get scammed everyday on the internet AND in face to face transactions. Trust, ethics and integrity goes a long way in this environment, especially when Group buys are meant to be for the better of the community.

The other problem to group buys, is if you bring them in and ship them out you may be liable for legal action down the track if it causes an accident bla bla.

One condition Rob and I will be reiterating with our GBs is that we are facilitating the ordering and shipping - Gbuyers are responsible for their selection of parts, suitability of parts, and for how they are used. If something were to happen after the fact, we are more than happy to assist the GBuyer, within reason, with contacting the originating vendor, should there be any product defects.

I do apologise for the long winded post. I agree that all points raised are valid and to which I felt deserved response given Rob and my position.

[mikinoz]

Seb, to be honest, I have spoken to consumer affairs just then and they consider these items if they are paid for by a single person and then subsequently on sold, as used items - not new, as there is no registered business or tax invoice. It is viewed in the same light as eBay from their perspective.

If you were interested in buying something and then think it is going to be an issue if you purchase through the group buy, my advice, is to avoid it and import them yourselves.

As far as group buys on forums go - well I don't think VWW is unique in that, take a look at computer, car and other forums, it is pretty common. Same can be said for the eBay and for sale sections. I've never heard that someone would be able to sue a forum for a private deal facilitated through the site.