Manual vs Auto

[JimmyVR6]

I don't think any australian v8, with a manual gearbox have ever had 'much precision or tactile feel', let alone the modern ones.

Agreed. I remember my uncle took the liberty of teaching me on my learners (this was around four years ago) in his SS, the clutch made my calf ache and the gearbox and throw was dense and heavy. It felt good in your hand though, reassuring.

Only other box that's on par with it for heftyness is the WrX STI's 6 speed, it's nigh on indestructable and you can feel it when you shift.



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[db_101]

Your observations pretty close to the mark. After a serious accident at speed in the WA Outback - tyre blowout, I vowed never to drive autos again - I could not 'wash off' the speed quickly & safely with the auto. I have driven manuals in heavy traffic and its not an issue. Recently purchased the manual Golf and have to say it is enjoyable stirring through the gears - when I had a loan DSG vehicle last week it left me completely uninspired. Also teaching my eldest now to drive a manual and even his observation is how much more control and attention it forces on the driver both consciously and unconsciously.

I will drive one till they carry me off

I certainly agree with you with regards to being more at attention and feeling more in control with a manual. I will defiantly stick to my manuals as i find them more fun to drive, but again guys this is my personal view and opinion.

[Tom87]

My first slushbox was behind a turbo diesel. The manual had too much changing gears in its silly little torque window which was realistically between 1500rpm and 3500rpm. Slush box auto is definitely superior to manual and automated manuals for turbo diesels. Dual clutch like DSG helps this common condition but I reckon riding the torque wave through a fluid coupling is better. Plus the slushbox can be built to handle the aggressive torque delivery of a modern diesel whereas manual gearboxes have to be built big and heavy plus transmit alot more NVH into the vehicle. Most modern turbo diesels with a manual gearbox are torque limited through 1st and 2nd gears in order to protect the gearbox and clutch, which says enough about it really.

With the GTI, i was happy with whatever I ended up with. Although I did want a manual, I ended up with DSG. It helps that the 2.0L turbo engine is so flexible in its power delivery it is happy to laze about or be flogged.

The reason there's so many GTI DSG on the road compared to manual is due to the price point of the vehicle. Not many people spending $40,000+ on a new small to medium car expect to be swapping cogs themselves as the price is that of a premium vehicle in its class. So automatic is going to be the overall pick, and also option of having automatic is what has attracted many buyers to the GTI to begin with. From the Mk5's release until about 2010 it was the only hot hatch which really offered an auto.

[Ideo]

Because most Australians are
a) lazy
b) unable to drive even an auto
c) incapable of seeing the fun in driving
d) buying a car for prestige only.

So we are stuck with tedious slushboxes.

The 8 speed auto from BMW is ok, the DSG is ok if it was actually somewhat reliable. Apart from that, you might as well just go and get a beige Avalon and float around, detached from everything that is happening.,

[VW Convert]

Because most Australians are
a) lazy
b) unable to drive even an auto
c) incapable of seeing the fun in driving
d) buying a car for prestige only.

So we are stuck with tedious slushboxes.

The 8 speed auto from BMW is ok, the DSG is ok if it was actually somewhat reliable. Apart from that, you might as well just go and get a beige Avalon and float around, detached from everything that is happening.,

Pretty sweeping statement there!

None of a,b,c or d applies to myself but I drive an auto (DSG) and love it, clearly head and shoulders above a conventional auto IMO and much more suited to my needs than a manual especially when driving on the congested streets of Sydney.

Horses for courses I say, autos suit the needs of most people on our roads, there's no right or wrong, simply personal choice in action.

Cheers

George

[ziggyboy]

I'll ask one question.

If all you're interested in is going from A to B (ie you don't got through winding roads on a daily basis to go to work) and you can afford it (ie. you don't go ape sh_t over a relatively measly $2k), is there any other reason why you would buy a manual?

[Diesel_vert]

I'll ask one question.

If all you're interested in is going from A to B (ie you don't got through winding roads on a daily basis to go to work) and you can afford it (ie. you don't go ape sh_t over a relatively measly $2k), is there any other reason why you would buy a manual?

For the average North American, Japanese or Australian motorist who commutes in a passenger vehicle driven in the city or suburban areas?

None.



Manual transmissions are arguably more reliable because they are inherently simpler devices, but the average Australian motorist probably wouldn't keep their vehicle to the point where that might prove advantageous (i.e. distances in excess of 200 000 km).

The loss of fuel efficiency is outweighed by convenience, because the price of fuel isn't something ridiculous like $2.30 per litre, which is what the average European motorist is faced with.

The loss of drivetrain efficiency is outweighed by engines with (on average) larger displacements, as registration, tax and running costs of such vehicles are not significantly penalised in Australia.

[Ideo]

I'll ask one question.

If all you're interested in is going from A to B (ie you don't got through winding roads on a daily basis to go to work) and you can afford it (ie. you don't go ape sh_t over a relatively measly $2k), is there any other reason why you would buy a manual?

Personal preference

The joy of being able to rev match downchanges.

Still having full use of left hand side of body.

Knows the difference between a clutch and a clutch purse.

[popeclement]

Only other box that's on par with it for heftyness is the WrX STI's 6 speed, it's nigh on indestructable and you can feel it when you shift.

6 spd Getrag in E39 M5 - poetry

[nat225]

i think manual cars should be made mandatory for all young drivers during their P period.

the main benefits:
1. it requires the otherwise free left hand to actually use it for driving, instead of holding a smartphone for texting and other tweet / facebook /internet / etc stuffs while the car is moving or in traffic lights.
2. when stopping, instead of again using the free hand to grab the smartphone, you will use it to change gears.

for enthusiasts who love driving, unfortunately DCT transmissions are becoming more and more the norm in purpose built racecars, supercars and many other fast cars. this could be due to the more efficient operation and possible better lap times achieveable.

DCT and XTRAC gearboxes seem to be the norm now for cars that have achieved record lap times and won races. have a look at WRC race cars, Aust V8 race cars, GT3 race cars, WTAC 2012 winner NEMO Evo, the new Porsche GT3 and lastly the new McLaren P1.

[mfl]

i think manual cars should be made mandatory for all young drivers during their P period.

the main benefits:
1. it requires the otherwise free left hand to actually use it for driving, instead of holding a smartphone for texting and other tweet / facebook /internet / etc stuffs while the car is moving or in traffic lights.
2. when stopping, instead of again using the free hand to grab the smartphone, you will use it to change gears.

for enthusiasts who love driving, unfortunately DCT transmissions are becoming more and more the norm in purpose built racecars, supercars and many other fast cars. this could be due to the more efficient operation and possible better lap times achieveable.

DCT and XTRAC gearboxes seem to be the norm now for cars that have achieved record lap times and won races. have a look at WRC race cars, Aust V8 race cars, GT3 race cars, WTAC 2012 winner NEMO Evo, the new Porsche GT3 and lastly the new McLaren P1.

and it also teaches young drivers to read the traffic ahead - beyond just the car directly in front, as they need to select the correct gear for the traffic conditions (speed).

yes it does seem the future is pretty bleak for those few of us who still prefer manuals over automated transmissions of any description.

I wonder how many drivers of dsg cars even know (those outside of this forum), why the computer blips the throttle on downshifts ?

[Diesel_vert]

A manual transmission may make for better skilled and coordinated drivers, but that doesn't necessarily translate into better driver attitudes.

[Idle]

I wonder how many drivers of dsg cars even know (those outside of this forum), why the computer blips the throttle on downshifts ?

Just about anyone who learned to drive when I did (or earlier.)

Other than match-and-bash, options were mainly Model T, Daimler/Lanchester pre-selector and the rather odd and unreliable "Electric Hand" found on a few Hudson models and a few Continental devices.

Once you learned to accurately match gears, clutches became mostly an aid to starting from standstill and parking.

[gldgti]

Some cars just have to be manual to be great... golfs among them IMO. All hatchbacks for that matter. The smaller the car, the less power it has, the more fun a manual gearbox I reckon.

I am a person that never thought I would own an auto.... until I bought the allroad. In that car, the auto is great. It suits the car. I wouldn't be surprised if I enjoyed a manual in the allroad better, but I reckon its pretty enjoyable with the auto for what it is.

I cant understand any samll hatchbacks being auto, except that I also cant understand why half of the modern hatchbacks on the road sell at all, they are so terrible to drive... so given that the people buying them don't like driving (they mus'nt!) its not surprising they are auto.

Then throw all the mini SUV garbage into the pile and its a wonder there are any manual cars left to drive at all. I'm glad there are some of us who still like manuals.

[Tom87]

Some cars just have to be manual to be great... golfs among them IMO. All hatchbacks for that matter. The smaller the car, the less power it has, the more fun a manual gearbox I reckon.

I am a person that never thought I would own an auto.... until I bought the allroad. In that car, the auto is great. It suits the car. I wouldn't be surprised if I enjoyed a manual in the allroad better, but I reckon its pretty enjoyable with the auto for what it is.

I cant understand any samll hatchbacks being auto, except that I also cant understand why half of the modern hatchbacks on the road sell at all, they are so terrible to drive... so given that the people buying them don't like driving (they mus'nt!) its not surprising they are auto.

Then throw all the mini SUV garbage into the pile and its a wonder there are any manual cars left to drive at all. I'm glad there are some of us who still like manuals.

You can never write for an australian motoring journal with the opinion that half of them are terrible to drive. You must be able to insist that the a steaming pile of turd with its new wedge-like and sporty styling known as the Corolla is interesting and competent as an enthusiastic sporty vehicle.

Mind you, no brand elitism here. I consider the Golf an overly interesting hatchback to drive, they'd offend the majority of their buyers if it had oodles of reckless and irresponsible character tones.