DSG woes in The Age

[muli]

Sure there is some rambling but there is a few good points that VAG could learn from

Don't Bite the Hand That Feeds You

[Foos]

Hmm. I've had 1 false neutral in my ' dsg 11 gti. Free revving when should gave been in 3rd. Slapped it back into manual and dropped a gear and it reengaged. It wasn't pleasant though as it happened going through a round about. Hasn't happened in a year tho.

[VWDSGissue]

This is really getting ridiculous and becoming more of a media witch hunt. I mean VW already gave an indication that they might announce a recall next week. I don't see any point for Fairfax to publish another article bashing VW again.

Don't they think about VW owners who have not encountered problems but will lose thousands of dollars of resale value when they sell their car?

Faults that trashed a reputation

And another one

A lot of ground to make up for reluctant VW

I am with Fairfax on this one. VW have been dragging their heels. They might respond this week, hopefully with a full recall for all affected VW owners. I am experiencing the shuddering issue in my 2008 Passat with the 6 Speed DSG. I want VW to pay for the fix. I have more hope than I had two weeks ago.

I know my resale value is going to be lower. At least I will be able to sell it, once they fix the issue. I do not blame Fairfax, I blame VW. They should not sell poor quality vehicles, they should admit to their faults, they should repair the issues for free.

A class action against VW, by the owners who have not had issues, might be possible.

I will be selling my car as soon as I can. My Subaru Outback has done 244,000Kms. Its most expensive repair was cheaper than my VW's last standard service (75,000Kms, not even the timing belt). I am highlighting the difference in reliability. The VW needs a new $3,500 Mechatronics unit, apparently.

[alexaescht]

DSG woes in The Age

Mum just forwarded me the email. I've attached it for anyone who wants to read it:

[logger]

..
There are fundamental issues with the DSG boxes' design ...

The DSGs have issues, however in regard to

..
1. anywhere you bath sensitive electronics (mechantronics) in hot gearbox oil, you are bound to have failures,
2. the tendancy of the DSGs to ride the clutch to gain "economy" with always being in a higher gear than what it really should be will wear out the clutch packs earlier than expected...

Both wrong ....

1. The 7 Speed gearbox mechatronic unit, which is the most effected of the two main DSGs, contains no gearbox oil. 6 speed does though.
2. That's pure speculation. I could also speculate that adding a second clutch would double the combined clutch life, when clearly it does not. The cars characteristic of running taller gears is by design and does not mean it has a tendency to "ride" the clutch. I have seen no clear evidence off the taller gear regime being the cause of the DSG7 clutch failures.

[chopper]

Hmm. I've had 1 false neutral in my ' dsg 11 gti. Free revving when should gave been in 3rd. Slapped it back into manual and dropped a gear and it reengaged. It wasn't pleasant though as it happened going through a round about. Hasn't happened in a year tho.

I had EXACTLY the same experience... 2011 GTI DSG, false neutral (MFD showed D3) while trying to accelerate out of a roundabout! All the talk seems to be around the 7 speed box... but it seems the 6 speed box is just as susceptible!

To be fair... it has only happened once...

[Eaglehawk]

Mum just forwarded me the email. I've attached it for anyone who wants to read it:

This is old news...

Message from Managing Director John White

[alexaescht]

DSG woes in The Age

This is old news...

Message from Managing Director John White

I know, but the email was only sent out today.

[alexaescht]

DSG woes in The Age

The DSGs have issues, however in regard to

Both wrong ....

1. The 7 Speed gearbox mechatronic unit, which is the most effected of the two main DSGs, contains no gearbox oil. 6 speed does though.
2. That's pure speculation. I could also speculate that adding a second clutch would double the combined clutch life, when clearly it does not. The cars characteristic of running taller gears is by design and does not mean it has a tendency to "ride" the clutch. I have seen no clear evidence off the taller gear regime being the cause of the DSG7 clutch failures.

Actually, the 7 speed DSG does have gearbox oil, it's just that the clutches aren't bathed in it, only the actual gearing and mechatronics are. Just like a manual gearbox has a dry clutch, but still requires gearbox oil.

[brad]

I know, but the email was only sent out today.

Even the facts email are stretching the truth.

There were no VWs sold in Australia until 1954.

There were no passenger vehicles sold in Australia for a period of about 7 years in the '80s (?) and only Transporters were sold in volumes as low as 45/pa

[logger]

Actually, the 7 speed DSG does have gearbox oil....

It does. However Re read my post. I said the mechatronics unit does not contain gearbox oil not the gearbox. The seven speed mechatronics unit has it own independent oil circuit containing hydraulic oil, not gearbox oil.

[RoknRob]

Has anybody called the Customer Care Hotline?

I did yesterday. Was told my car had no issues, but please make an appointment with the dealer of my choice to get the car inspected. Why then, I asked, were recalls happening overseas? Why weren't they addressing the problems here? Sorry, VW Head Office are not telling us either.

Anyway, for those of you who say all marks have reliability issues, then cite a recall - Toyota is the example that comes to mind - there is a big difference. Toyota was proactive, protecting the owners AND maintaining confidence in the company, and hence their brand's value (read resale prices).

In contrast, VW is reactive - and has taken much too long to address people's concerns:

“Organising a recall is a complex process. It involves communication with local government authorities, legal framework and the organisation of spare parts and servicing,” a Volkswagen spokesman disclosed, adding, “We are aware of the situation in Australia. We will react to the complaints. It will go beyond a service action.”

What I don't get is why some people on here are still saying that this is overblown, that there is no proof, that the problems of a few are hurting us all, there is no evidence. What do you call the recalls overseas? What do you make of this about-face by VW?

Sure, the problem may only affect a few cars, but why not just sort it out then??? Why the big drama and the silence???

Personally, I am relieved that VW is finally acting, because if there is any chance of regaining some confidence in the company, this is the necessary step.

(PS: I am also perplexed by 2 or 3 other members being overly critical of VWOzCrap. He may have a history, but he wasn't being particularly offensive or difficult in this thread. And he now certainly appears vindicated. He deserves an apology. The treatment he received was pretty shameful, and I'm surprised those members weren't sanctioned by the mods. But I guess those 2 or 3 members got what I feel they deserved in the end, because they drew a lot more attention to VWOzCrap's posts than would have been warranted otherwise...)

[wai]

Well, I'm not sure they are "finally acting". Despite the Caddy also having the problem gearbox. it does not look like they are going to do anything about the Caddy. The problem is that commercial vehicles with the issues are likely to be more of an issue that those owning passenger cars as their vehicles are used to earn their livelihood.

[pologti18t]

Anyway, for those of you who say all marks have reliability issues, then cite a recall - Toyota is the example that comes to mind - there is a big difference. Toyota was proactive, protecting the owners AND maintaining confidence in the company, and hence their brand's value (read resale prices).

Aren't the big Toyota recalls the ones that may end your life if not resolved? And if initiated from the USA then they may be safety recalls called on by a Government authority. Remember the unintended acceleration story that swept America a few years ago. At the time it did damage to Toyota's brand in the USA.... and it ended up being driver error or misfitted carpet mats.

There are whispers that Ford Powershift (dry clutch) is suffering from the same problems as the DQ200 box. Shuddering on takeoff, missing gears/false neutrals, weird noises as it changes gears.

[tigger73]

Both wrong ....

1. The 7 Speed gearbox mechatronic unit, which is the most effected of the two main DSGs, contains no gearbox oil. 6 speed does though.
2. That's pure speculation. I could also speculate that adding a second clutch would double the combined clutch life, when clearly it does not. The cars characteristic of running taller gears is by design and does not mean it has a tendency to "ride" the clutch. I have seen no clear evidence off the taller gear regime being the cause of the DSG7 clutch failures.

Actually, the 7 speed DSG does have gearbox oil, it's just that the clutches aren't bathed in it, only the actual gearing and mechatronics are. Just like a manual gearbox has a dry clutch, but still requires gearbox oil.

One of the major issues as I understand it is the dry clutch gearboxes when run in slow moving, stop/start traffic are doing a LOT of clutch slipping and the gearbox reaching temps of 400+ degC. So any electronics that is located close by (i.e. mechatronics) is going to get a good baking from the radiated heat from the hot clutch plates and surrounds. Electronics plus high temperatures = electronic component failures. The way electronics manufacturers work out Mean Time to Fail figures is to run their equipment at elevated temperatures (in an oven) to accelerate the testing/occurrence of failures.

Taller gearing does require more clutch slipping to get the car moving smoothly. Just try taking off in second gear all the time - which is what the DSG box effectively does due to short-shifting first gear. Plus in slow moving traffic the fact that first gear does not re-engage until the vehicle comes to a complete standstill means that the DSG will slip the clutch otherwise you'd stall the engine.

I'd say a lot of the issues with the DQ200 are heat related and can be attributed back to the push for the best in class fuel economy figures. Fuel economy may be great but if you destroy clutches in the process it costs a whole lot more than the 0.1l/100km saving you may achieve from running higher gears, upshifting early and slipping the clutch until the road speed picks up enough to have the clutch fully engaged.

If VW modified the shift pattern of their DSG gearboxes, half their problems would go away overnight.