Dodgy car dealers, Consumer Affairs and VCAT

[kapowww]

I bought my Bora from a used car dealer. There is a problem with the rear differential after 120,000km (which I don't think is that much for a diff). It's a dangerous problem when u-turning/parking and chews through tyres. The dealer does not want to fix it under warranty as he says it's general wear and tear and has been jerking me around for over 4 months.

I've taken it to mechanics and while they say this shouldn't be a wear and tear issue they don't really want to put it into writing for me (my mechanic is always too busy for this kinda thing). I took my case to Consumer Affairs Victoria who have helped me a bit but all they can do is facilitate between the dealer and I and can't force them to do anything.

Consumer Affairs advised me to bring the car in to the dealer to work something out. It's been there a week and the jerk at the dealership hasn't done anything at all! He reckons he's waiting on me to send my mechanics report and invoices for my aftermarket suspension (even though I waited till the warranty was expired before installing them so I wouldn't have this problem). He's using this to stall even though now the onus is on him to prove IT IS wear and tear. Is it normal for a Bora to have its rear diff replaced every 120000km? If yes, then I'll graciously accept. He's trying to flip it and make me do all the work and prove that it's not wear and tear.

Basically next step would be to take him to VCAT (Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal) and I'd have to pay. Do I have a case?? (This is if he doesn't take the steps to rectify this now.) I'm willing to go as far as it takes to make this jerkoff pay. Anyone know a mechanic who'd back me up, or am I wasting my time?

[nightphotographer]

The fee you'd have to pay is about $30 so it's worth it - but you'd be waiting around for 6+ months for a hearing date!

[wai]

What is the statutory warranty on used vehicles in Victoria (months and kilometres)? If you have exceeded that then it will be difficult to get anything.

The other thing is whether there was any fault or mention of an issue with the diff or not.

[Buller_Scott]

this is gonna sound a little silly, but can you claim it as a "major defect" under the ACCC and demand a refund? (or is this only with new items?).

had a similar thing with my kid sister's skis earlier this year - warranty job, took 8 months to get new skis in, and they replaced them with a pair from precisely the same batch / run.

ACCC told me that if we had originally purchased the goods AFTER jan 1st this year, then we'd have a case under the "major defects" flag, stating that we would not have bought them in the first place if we had known that this was going to happen.

dunno if this applies to 2nd hand cars or not, but i'd hope that it does, for your sake.

good luck with it all

[wai]

this is gonna sound a little silly, but can you claim it as a "major defect" under the ACCC and demand a refund? (or is this only with new items?).

I think you will find this is on new products only and for the original buyer. This is the thing with a secondhand vehicle. You are not buying from a manufacturers representative or agent, but just from Joe Bloggs (Pty Ltd). They are not offering anything more than they are legally obliged to as far as warranty is concerned. If VW has allowed a transfer the balance of the warranty to the secondhand buyer, then the beef is not with the car dealer but VW. This is why it is extremely important to make sure you are going after the right party.

had a similar thing with my kid sister's skis earlier this year - warranty job, took 8 months to get new skis in, and they replaced them with a pair from precisely the same batch / run.

ACCC told me that if we had originally purchased the goods AFTER jan 1st this year, then we'd have a case under the "major defects" flag, stating that we would not have bought them in the first place if we had known that this was going to happen.

dunno if this applies to 2nd hand cars or not, but i'd hope that it does, for your sake.

good luck with it all

That's the key. If it were a new purchase, then you might have some claim even if it is outside the standard warranty. Secondhand is a whole other story. Unless it is part of a manufacturer recall (and even here there are problems), there is not much chance of getting things done.

I don't know how many might remember the problem Holden had with its Trimatic transmissions where they had with the clutch plates delaminating. I had a Torana with a Trimatic transmission, and even though it was just a few months out of warranty, I had to pay the full amount to have the clutch plates replaced. I still have the faulty plates and you can peel away layers from the friction surfaces. No amount of persuading (and I worked for the NSW DMT Policy Unit) would get Holden to budge. The only transmissions that were fixed at their expense were those still under the 12/20 waarranty.

VCAT can get things happening when the other party does not want VCAT to decide, much like the CTTT in NSW. If it gets to a hearing and you get a judgement in your favour, you still have to enforce it. The tribunal does not have any powers of enforcement. To do that you have to initiate court proceedings and then it is the lawyers who win.

But you know what, if someone wants to take it to the limit, go for it, just remember there is a point beyond which you do not come out in front.

[Ben_GTI]

used cars have a 1 month warranty period or something like that and also the RWC to transfer to rego is valid for 1 month. If you come back after that, it isnt the sellers problem. If it was before 1 month the issue is with whoever issued the RWC, however given the time elapsed it is more worth your while to buy a diff and a pair of car jacks. If you provide a slab of beer for your mates you will find the diff will get changed out in an arvo.

[kapowww]

Used cars come with a 3 month statutory warranty and the problem was identified within that time period. There was sufficient evidence through emails that Consumer Affairs accepted my application as valid and that I had a case so it definitely was still covered. The main question was whether or not diff damage is wear and tear or not, as wear and tear isn't covered under the warranty.

So far it seems that the dealer really wants a report and quote from my mechanic today so hopefully he'll stop playing games once he receives it.

Otherwise it'll look like I'll have to get some mates together and the diff changed over, but hopefully not as I won't stop annoying them until there's no more options left.

[wai]

The problem is trying to get anything enforced.

I currently have around $40,000 outstanding (in some cases for years) from clients who simply refuse to pay or comply with judgements. In one case, I submitted a statement of claim by e-mail. The client (now ex-client) quoted the entire statement of claim adding just two words at the top...NOT PAYING. This was a clear cut case of simply not wanting to pay and nothing to do with workmanship. The judgement was in my favour, but still no payment. I was simply told to go through the courts and the tribunal was simply there to to make a judgement. Enforcement could only happen through the courts and that would cost more than the debt was worth.

You could "annoy" them and get as many quotes as they ask for. These are just delaying tactics. Look at this way, they did not get where they are by handing back money to every customer who complained about a car they have bought. Just look at the high-profile instances of dodgy car dealers and those who offer finance for dodgy cars. People still queue for cars and finance from them even though they know there will be problems.

[kapowww]

I know what you're saying, but your case is different as it's the clients who aren't so compliant. The dealers are a bit more.. Also the point that you make about them not caring about the publicity is true and definitely makes sense with the dodgy ones.. This dealer is a bit more high end so I woulda though they were more respectable as they sell M3s, Ferraris, etc.. I'm probably wrong.

[kapowww]

Update: After what seemed like forever the dealer tried a few things to fix the problem, only to come to the same conclusion I came to earlier and it was that the diff needed replacing. I got a quote from my mechanic and the dealer's agreed to pay for the work to get done! Consumer Affairs was really helpful.