Additional Tax Contribution: Mobile Speed Cameras

[cube_3]

Rocket, have you ever travelled more than 4kms over the speed limit?
If yes then no your not perfect (who is) and at the same time (using your rationale) your knowingly disobeying the law.
If no then yes you are perfect, well at least with regard to never speeding.

I'm personally not out to speed but sometimes people make genuine mistakes and I don't believe that they should be crucified for it.
Unfortunately there are grey areas in life.

Since I am origonally from oveseas I do not know what the speed camera tollerance is in Australia. From what this thread is saying, it seems to be 4kms, no matter what the speed limit? If so then it is quiet tight and unfair. Many other countries use a percentage system e.g. 10% so 110Km/h in a 100KM/h is an offence but 109km/h is ok. One thing to remember though is that the majority of cars speedo's show a higher speed that you are actually doing. So if you are doing 65km/h in a 60 zone you are probably only doing 62 to 63km/h so won't get stung at the 64Km/h trap setting.

I agree that people can make mistakes and lose concentration and drift over the limit. I would prefer a system that does not punish such a driver and just nails the b*stards you blatantly flout and exceed the limits. That is why I am a fan of the point to point Camera system where you average speed is measured over a certain distance. So you may briefly stray over the limit at some point, but on average are within the allowed tollerances for that speed limit.

[cube_3]

wow.... you must be a very experienced driver to be able to tell what speed you are doing even at a tolerance of 4km/h!!

Well obviously . In all seriousness you do get a feel for your car over time and monitoring your surroundings and speed regularily is what helps make better drivers. This obviously takes a lot of concentration and can be difficult for many people to maintain consistently but the consequence of stuffing up could make us responsible for other peoples lives. It is a pity VW never brought their adaptive cruise control technology to Aus with the new golf as this is definitely something that could help people who have difficulty maintaining their speed and prevent collisions.

i agree whole-heartedly. this is one of the reason why i started this thread. i believe that one of the answer to safer roads is by better driver education. what we have in place at the moment is a joke. start with re-training existing driving instructors (i've seen many stupid decisions made by th insructors on the road), we should abolish parents-taught learner driver programs (i believe its just passing on bad habits and mis-informed advice), introduce driving lessons (practical/theory) in high schools and emphasize on driving behaviours and ettiquitte, introduce advance driver training, etc.

I am with you on this!

yes, but how do we determine what the real speed limit should be?? you do know what will happen when the revenue starts to slow down, they will decrease the speed again to make sure that we are again over this so called limit. suburban streets used to be 60km/h when cars were less safer (less efficient brakes, no crumple-zone technology, no air-bags, etc);

What the speed limits should be is really out of our hands. One would "hope" that the various road organisations have done the correct analysis e.g. road quality, traffic volumes, average vehicle age, how good the countries driver training is etc. I don't necessarily agree with all the limits set, but I still obey them. For example we have a Freeway in Perth that drops from 100km to 80km as it narrows from 3 to 2 lanes and goes past the CBD. It them opens up to 4 lanes and then later back to 3 after a couple of Kms and then only goes back to 100km. I think it should be 100Kms once it opens up to 4 lanes but I still drive at the limit of 80. But a good majority of the other road users decide that the signs are wrong and do 100+ anyway and I am the one who gets the dirty looks and the "bird" while travelling 80 in the inner lanes.

now that we have advanced technologically with our automobile, we have decreased this so called limit!?! when the fines starts to slow down, they will reduce the limit again. did i hear someone say 40km/h for all suburban areas??
school zones are another farce. don't get me wrong, i do care about the little ones. With some common-sense, i usually did slow down considerably when i see school children around prior to the 40km/h school zone, i didn't need signs to tell me to do so. Want to have safer roads for kids?? how about fences along footpaths and foot bridges?? and... maybe actually teaching children how to cross properly like i did when i was a kid. school zones were a quick fix with the plus side of revenue raising and to increase the congestion so that we use the toll roads.

I agree that education and safety measures for pedestrians are also needed but we really do need to have these lower speeds in built up suburbia and around schools. I am not sure if you have young kids but they work on Chaos theory and have the attention span of a Nat. These limits are more for their unpredicatability than preventing car collisions. The big flashy 40km zones are not really there for the aware drivers, more for those that do have lapses in concentration .... a bright flashing light certainly grabs peoples attentions. (I can't telly you how many times a traffic jam has been caused on the freeway because an RAC / NRMA road assist vehicle has its lights on helping someone in the emergency lane, causing people to slow down when they see it!)

btw, i'm not always this negative, but these issues just really gets to me.

As they do I ... no worries!

[Blitzen]

What I still don't get is how they can enforce the 4km/h over breech of the speed limit in Victoria when ADR's state that the speedometer has to be within a 10% tolerance of the posted speed limit at any given speed.

On a side note, I wonder if Rocket goes home and whips himself if he gets within one kilometer of the speed limit...

[brad]

I got caught by a police LIDAR hand held gun on Monday morning at 6.50am.
I was on my normal commute in a 70kmh zone. I did what I've done for the past 3 years - went up the big 400m long hill and as i crested it took my foot off the accelerator; shifted into top and let gravity do it's thing back down the hill. The road was clear for 400m in front of me. There was a Ford Territory on my left blocking my view of the police car which was partially obscured by the fence/signs it was parked behind.
Apparently I was doing 88kmh at one point before slowing again as the car went up the slight rise in the road at the bottom of the hill. I can only believe them as I wasn't looking at my speedo - too busy watching for cars coming out of the swimming centre & the service station & watching for the change of lights at the intersection. The police did all the lights & sirens thing as I proceeded up the road doing 70kmh. I didn't even realise it was me they were after. I did the right thing & pulled into a side street rather than stop in a clearway. I even asked the police officer to move off the road as the street we were in gets used by rat-runners.
I told the police officer that I didn't think my progress was innapropriate for the conditions. She said the traffic was heavy, which I disputed - I couldn't believe what a good run I was having to work & how few cars were on the road.

End result: $90 fine & 1 point because they took the usual 10% margin for error off. Do I think I was doing a bad thing? - nope. Was my speed innapropriate for the conditions? Nope. Did I break the law? Yep. Am I contrite? Nope. I've been fined because I exceeded the posted limit for a distance of 50 metres going down a steep hill - big deal.

I just don't get it anymore. I slow down for the school zones & the 50kmh zones. I try & drive appropriately for the road & weather conditions. I try & keep a 2 second gap to the car in front of me & everyone keeps jumping into it. I move to the left on the motorway. I keep my car in good order, buy good tyres, etc. I do defensive driving courses. I've driven at much faster speeds in the UK, Germany, Austria & Switzerland & the roads were no better & had lots more traffic on them.

Our roads are so much slower than what they were when I first started driving 30 years back. I used to be able to drive the 200km from Sydney to Ulladulla in less than 2.5 hours (2hours 10 minutes one early morning in a 1200cc LC Torana); these days in a Toyofalcadore it always takes 2hrs40mins-3hrs and they've spent probably $100million straightening the roads, adding overtaking lanes, bipassing towns but rarely increasing the speed limits. Australia/NSW is so frustrating when it comes to motoring.

[Maverick]

What I still don't get is how they can enforce the 4km/h over breech of the speed limit in Victoria when ADR's state that the speedometer has to be within a 10% tolerance of the posted speed limit at any given speed.

State rules can ignore the ADR's. Prior to the updated ADR (18/03) when it was plus or minus 10% Victoria still had their 3 kph tolerance as they didn't accept the plus 10% and even if you provided proof (that the court would accept - an experts report for example) that your speedometer was 10% out it wouldn't be a valid defence.

Even though all the cars prior to July 2006/2007 (depending if a new model or existing) were required to meet ADR 18/02 which allowed plus or minus 10% this isn't a defence in the other states unless you can prove that your cars speedometer is our by a percentage at the time you were caught speeding and it wasn't something you contributed to. In other words it's unlikely to be a valid defence (NSW IIRC had a similar rule to Victoria.

ADR 18/03 which is based on UNECE 39/00 Revision 1 can be read here - Volkswagen Speedometer Error Correction

On a side note, I wonder if Rocket goes home and whips himself if he gets within one kilometer of the speed limit...

Clearly he calibrates his speedo before hitting the roads each time to account for the many variances that can occur like tyre wear, tyre pressure, the inaccurate speedo (a calibrated speedo shows in 1kph increments and is only accurate to plus or minus 2km/h) and so on.

[Maverick]

End result: $90 fine & 1 point because they took the usual 10% margin for error off.

They don't do this (at least you don't hear about it) in Queensland, you get done for the speed you were doing with no discounting. Well unless you're a good looking female in a short skirt that is.

[elephino]

Brad, I think you'll find you just happened to come across a good cop. It wasn't 10% margin of error, it was moving you down into the lower (1-10km/h over) bracket for doing the right thing (moving into side street, etc).

[brad]

Brad, I think you'll find you just happened to come across a good cop. It wasn't 10% margin of error, it was moving you down into the lower (1-10km/h over) bracket for doing the right thing (moving into side street, etc).

yeah maybe. I haven't had much to do with police over the years. I just thought they knocked 10% off to stop you arguing that the speed guns might be slightly out of calibration.

The last time I dealt with a radar was a bike officer in the backstreets near my home about 8 years back. All the windows of my car were fogged up & I was driving along at sun-up (about 5.30am) doing just under 60 in a 50 zone (again, more interested in looking through the foggy windows that I had already cleaned once and for cars coming from side streets & pedestrians that tend to walk on the road at that hour of the morning). Then I saw the police pointing the radar at me & looked down & saw my speed. He didn't do anything, so i stopped & asked him what speed i was doing. He said I was doing 58 but he had bigger fish to fry & told me to bugger off.

[Jace]

Just got off my P's, I'm stoked that I have 12 points to spend!

[elephino]

Just got off my P's, I'm stoked that I have 12 points to spend!

Spend them wisely

[zjm]

where are the cameras that pick up right lane hogs ,people that dont indicate ,give way or generally follow the basic road rules
In NSW you have to get your car inspected annually after it is 2 years old yet they dont check if you can drive until your a pensioner
australian drivers are pretty ordinary

[Jace]

australian people are pretty ordinary

Fixed that for you.

[brad]

In NSW you have to get your car inspected annually after it is 2 years old

5 years old now. By then my car will be at 125,000km. Most sales reps will be at 250,000-500,000km (if they have kept it that long)

[jettapilot]

Just got off my P's, I'm stoked that I have 12 points to spend!

And you intend to spend them?
That's great. Do it quickly so the rest of us don't have to share the road with your attitude.

[cme2c]

Some points. (oh, and I have all 12 of mine, last speeding offence 2006, FYI)

Yes, the faster you go, the worse an accident will be. What causes damage is kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is mass times velocity squared , divided by 2. So if a 64t B Double is safe at 100km/h, my 1t Peugeot is safe at 800km/h.( a BIG bottle of nitrous...). Yes I know that's ludicrous (reductio ad absurdum ) BUT it is still ludicrous to have the same limit for all vehicles.

Perhaps we could look at stopping distances? NRMA did a test, where a 2004 Commodore stopped in 16.8m from 60 km/h A 1979 Kingswood took 20.8m and a 1984 Land Cruiser in 24.4m! (having driven all 3, I believe it!!). All have the same limit (except the landy would not get to 110)

Ok, another argument.The more time you spend on the roads, the greater the chance of an accident. Lets say you are driving from the intersection of the Forbes and Grenfell roads to Broken hill, about 700 km. If you average 100 km/h you are on the road for 7 hours. If you average 140 km/h, you take 5 hours. That's 2 hours LESS you are in the firing line.

The other side of the argument is the implied assertion that if you drive under the limit you are perfectly safe. Just look at shows like Jackass to see how much damage you can do to yourself at speeds well below 60 km/h.

The other morning I was driving my son to the station, early. Little traffic. I was on a connecting rd, 2 lanes but occasional parked cars so I was in the right lane at about the limit (60 km/h). I see headlights approaching fast in my mirror, in the left lane, and lifted off to let a WRX doing over 100 km/h to get easily between me and a parked car. Now if i'd been inattentive, or stupid, or looking at my speedo to see I wasn't doing 64 km/hr, an accident would have been more likely. What good do speed cameras do in this circumstance?

So, what do I do? I usually try to obey speed limits, no matter how stupid. Of course if there is a little 80 sign in the breakdown lane on the freeway, that you can't see in lane 2 or 3 it's a bit difficult. Do you slow down and risk being hit from behind? dunno. oh and if you have a smartphone with GPS, check out trapster.com.