Where is the T5 California ?

[MultiplexMan]

I find local camper conversion costs very expensive.

If you compare similar work done for your home (bricks & mortar) - campers are certainly sold at a premium. I know I could get a quality kitchen fit out with european appliances for under 20K. Granted the pop top and the auxilliary battery supply are "unique" to the sector but how on earth do we end up over 100K?

I also don't understand the premium we pay for conversions compared to the UK firms.

Check out some of their sites, the materials used and the finished prices. Price is not lower due to volume as most are smaller than Trakka and the like.

I agree with concerns re VW support with a California. I have had enough issues with my Kombi Beach. I shudder to think of the issues one could have with a more complex vehicle.

The Cali does make for a nice brochure though

[jets]

I know someone who had a conversion by Trakka on his T4 2 or 3 years ago. He got a quote but told them they were too expensive. They reduced the price & got the job. After looking at UK prices I thought they were just as expensive as over here.

[Seano]

I find local camper conversion costs very expensive.

If you compare similar work done for your home (bricks & mortar) - campers are certainly sold at a premium. I know I could get a quality kitchen fit out with european appliances for under 20K. Granted the pop top and the auxilliary battery supply are "unique" to the sector but how on earth do we end up over 100K?

I also don't understand the premium we pay for conversions compared to the UK firms.

When was the last time you had a tradesman in to your house?!!

Two reasons why they are expensive - hourly rates, competition (or the lack thereof).

Campers are a custom fitout....and I'd reckon they'd probably take two tradespeople about a week to do - so lets say about 100 hours all up. At $75 per hour. Plus the cost of the fitout gear itself.....timber, carpet, upholstery, fridge, stove, water tanks, curtains,fittings etc.....there'd be 15 grand in this at least in just parts. So we are over twenty grand now. Add the pop top....another five grand. Add another couple of grand for the panelbeater to paint and detail........then whack all of that on top of a van that's just cost fifty grand. By my rough maths, that's about eighty thousand......kick in the rest for marketing and profits and you've got a reasonable return as manufacturer...

[MultiplexMan]

When was the last time you had a tradesman in to your house?!!

Last year - completed a reno on an apartment (Sydney).

Wall units were cheaper installed than I could purchase the material . One fellow (This I could not believe as I would have used a T/A) a little over one hour - over 9 meters of build ins fully lined and fitted. The fellow just did build ins and he did not stop until he was finished.

Kitchen - units imported panelling, Miele (ex display) appliances, Silestone benchtops, lower drawers, upper cabinets and pantry for 20K. I thought I had done well till I saw a mate's kitchen. Same price, twice the size, Italian appliances and hardwood doors, team of three tradesman took a day for fit out, with two fellows back the following day for tiling.

If you are taking a week to do a kitchen, you'll be out of business quick smart OR you have to charge accordingly. I imagine there are a dwindling number of "whales" out there for the harvesting...though I am continually amazed by people who walk into kitchen showrooms and pay retail. I got quoted over 50K for the same kitchen that I had installed

Two reasons why they are expensive - hourly rates, competition (or the lack thereof).

Campers are a custom fitout....

So is a Kitchen - unless you go universal prefab flat pack. Campers are essentially the same. After all if you are converting LWB T5s they don't change all that much. The same cabinets are going to fit exactly where the did the last time. You cannot offer much variety in order to recoup on initial cabinet design costs.

then whack all of that on top of a van that's just cost fifty grand.

I doubt a camper converter would be paying retail for a van...

[Transporter]

Last year - completed a reno on an apartment (Sydney).

Wall units were cheaper installed than I could purchase the material . One fellow (This I could not believe as I would have used a T/A) a little over one hour - over 9 meters of build ins fully lined and fitted. The fellow just did build ins and he did not stop until he was finished.

Kitchen - units imported panelling, Miele (ex display) appliances, Silestone benchtops, lower drawers, upper cabinets and pantry for 20K. I thought I had done well till I saw a mate's kitchen. Same price, twice the size, Italian appliances and hardwood doors, team of three tradesman took a day for fit out, with two fellows back the following day for tiling.

If you are taking a week to do a kitchen, you'll be out of business quick smart OR you have to charge accordingly. I imagine there are a dwindling number of "whales" out there for the harvesting...though I am continually amazed by people who walk into kitchen showrooms and pay retail. I got quoted over 50K for the same kitchen that I had installed

So is a Kitchen - unless you go universal prefab flat pack. Campers are essentially the same. After all if you are converting LWB T5s they don't change all that much. The same cabinets are going to fit exactly where the did the last time. You cannot offer much variety in order to recoup on initial cabinet design costs.

I doubt a camper converter would be paying retail for a van...

Very nice write up and summary.
But I think that price is market driven, so why would they be selling it for less if they can get this higher price for conversions?
You or every body else would be asking the highest price for what ever you can sell, just like them.
I call it normal human behaviour.

[Seano]

I doubt a camper converter would be paying retail for a van...

They don't......you do.

Comparing your own kitchen renovation to that of a camper conversion is a bit odd. That's like comparing apples to boat anchors.

The only thing in common is the tradesperson doing the install. And having done/doing to the odd house reno plus also having done the odd car reno.......I know which is easier. The house......every time (my kitchen is looking to end up somewhere around 8K by the by).

I watched a qualified welder mate and his wife fit out an old Bedford bus for their retirement.......despite the fact they did most of the job themselves it still cost them the best part of thirty grand over and above the cost of the bus to get it done. So it ain't cheap.

Yep I could do a camper conversion for well under $100K but it probably wouldn't turn out quite like a Trakka et al. (more like a Wicked Camper) AND I don't think I'd be that much in front financially especially if I put a value to my time............in the end, however, my idea of travelling is a swag/tent, a Drifta kitchen, Engel fridge on the back of a dual cab T4....not a complicated campervan.

[MultiplexMan]

Very nice write up and summary.
But I think that price is market driven, so why would they be selling it for less if they can get this higher price for conversions?
You or every body else would be asking the highest price for what ever you can sell, just like them.
I call it normal human behaviour.

Spot on!

I think the "grey nomad" market, retirees with lots of disposable income, has driven the market. Visit a camping and caravan show and have a look and listen. I noted a two person roof top tent range from $4.5-8K!!! That's amazing. In that context, 100K for a camper is not ridiculous.

I agree that Trakka and the like should charge what the market can afford. After all, if demand slows down, you can always trim margin or reduce features to lower prices...My post was with regard to whether the prices were "competitive" re UK outfits and relative to the actual "value" of the work.

Compare this to the 70s/80s where you would see younger folk buying an ex Telecom Kombi at auction to do up and tour around the country. I remember helping my father out on quite a few conversions. The most expensive item of the conversion was always the pop-top.

[MultiplexMan]

They don't......you do.

That was my point. There is quite a lot of margin in there when you start to look closely.

Comparing your own kitchen renovation to that of a camper conversion is a bit odd. That's like comparing apples to boat anchors.

A camper fit-out is very like a granny flat, tiny apartment or marine fit out. It's smaller and cheaper than a full "bells and whistles" home kitchen. A lot less material, appliances are 12V, the plumbing and electrical runs are short, space dimensions are fixed and consistent between vehicles (I love irregular rooms and out of plumb walls...grrrr), no carting gear up stairways...

......in the end, however, my idea of travelling is a swag/tent, a Drifta kitchen, Engel fridge on the back of a dual cab T4....not a complicated campervan.

My sentiments exactly. I've kitted my Kombi for better sound proofing & thermal insulation, solar for my work electronics and a fridge (I like cold drinks when based out in the Cooper Basin) - that's it. To each his own

[jets]

I have just found a VW brochure in my file titled 'Life and Tour" In addition to the Kombi Beach it includes the California both in 2WD & 4Motion. The last couple of pages show the Caddy Life with Weekender Package. On the back page it states " Specifications are as planned at October 2005 etc"
VW at the time were obviously planning to sell the California here but probably got cold feet & pulled out at the eleventh hour. I think this is more likely the reason than an ADR problem.

[KeenCamper]

califonia

If right side sliding door is a safety issue why are they sold in England?

[BrianJ]

I have just found a VW brochure in my file titled 'Life and Tour" In addition to the Kombi Beach it includes the California both in 2WD & 4Motion. The last couple of pages show the Caddy Life with Weekender Package. On the back page it states " Specifications are as planned at October 2005 etc"
VW at the time were obviously planning to sell the California here but probably got cold feet & pulled out at the eleventh hour. I think this is more likely the reason than an ADR problem.

I believe VW tested the market by bringing in a batch of about 100 kombi beaches, to see how they would sell. They didn't sell that fast, based on the RRP being a bit high, and almost a complete lack of advertising so no one knew they existed.

They quickly shelved their plans to bring in the california I think.

I have one of the beaches with an added engel fride and a few othe things and it makes a brilliant touring camper at a moderate price.

Brian

[Seano]

If right side sliding door is a safety issue why are they sold in England?

Right slide door is available in Oz as an option.

[jimmyd]

Right slide door is available in Oz as an option.

yep, my T5 has lh and rh sliding doors.

[adeybruce]

Hi, please have a look at my first post on Newby's Corner copied below - after which it should be obvious why I am here on this thread!

Not sure if I am allowed on this forum as on closer inspection it would appear that the engine is at the wrong end of my camper, and definitely pumping oil! Not least of all I'm British!

Assuming you're willing to over look this for a moment, the reason I tracked this forum down is that I am in the process of emigrating to Australia and want to bring my T5 California with me. The T5 Cali is a wonderful bit of kit and I would not be without it, but I have struggled to track down any in Australia (in every other respect, a fine country). Is there some sound reason that you do not have any? I saw elsewhere that the issue might be that the sliding door (and the steering wheel, for that matter) is on the wrong side (egress therefore on the road side), or possibly some other problem.

Also the van is Diesel - would this prove a problem filling up?

Are there any enthusiasts who would be willing to find out the issues? I would be very grateful, and in return I promise to enrich your fine country with the World's finest camper. Many thanks.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Adey

[jets]

[QUOTE=adeybruce;380694]saw elsewhere that the issue might be that the sliding door (and the steering wheel, for that matter) is on the wrong side (egress therefore on the road side), or possibly some other problem.

Also the van is Diesel - would this prove a problem filling up?


If yours is LHD that would definately be a problem & wouldn't be allowed rego unless coverted to RHD.
Diesel not a problem. Like the UK most of ours are diesels.
Read also http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...ad.php?t=33402