T5 128kw Oil Leak Power Steering Seal

[Graeme]

After 92,000 kilometers the power steering pump seal has failed under engine oil pressure and engine oil is getting into the power steering oil. So says the VW dealer.

Just a new seal is not available - I'm told I have to buy and have fitted a new power steering pump.

Cost $1,400.

The dealer is willing to seek a contribution from VW as the car is only 6 months out of warranty.

Any comments from anyone knowledgable?

In particular would it be clear that steering oil would be contaminated by engine oil or would it be the other way around with possible engine damage the consequence?

Thanks,
G.

[Silver Caravelle]

After 92,000 kilometers the power steering pump seal has failed under engine oil pressure and engine oil is getting into the power steering oil. So says the VW dealer.

Just a new seal is not available - I'm told I have to buy and have fitted a new power steering pump.

Cost $1,400.

The dealer is willing to seek a contribution from VW as the car is only 6 months out of warranty.

Any comments from anyone knowledgable?

In particular would it be clear that steering oil would be contaminated by engine oil or would it be the other way around with possible engine damage the consequence?

Thanks,
G.

Graeme,

Sorry to hear this.

My guess is the both engine oil and P/S fluid would mix together, thereby cross contaminating. But this is only a guess. I am not sure that you would get engine damage though with some P/S fluid mixing with the total volume of engine oil. So you might be ok on that front.

Its a real scam that a new P/S pump has to be purchased to replace a seal.

Regards,

Scott

[Transporter]

After 92,000 kilometers the power steering pump seal has failed under engine oil pressure and engine oil is getting into the power steering oil. So says the VW dealer.

Just a new seal is not available - I'm told I have to buy and have fitted a new power steering pump.

Cost $1,400.

The dealer is willing to seek a contribution from VW as the car is only 6 months out of warranty.

Any comments from anyone knowledgable?

In particular would it be clear that steering oil would be contaminated by engine oil or would it be the other way around with possible engine damage the consequence?

Thanks,
G.

Is the power steering oil black like the engine oil?
From your post I read that engine oil is getting in the p/s pump.

However, the pressure in the power steering system is much higher than in the engine, the p/s pump is gear driven from engine and O-ring seals the pump body so the engine oil doesn't leak out, but there is no great amount of oil pressure around the gears, so it seams to me very unlikely that the engine oil would be getting onto the p/s pump. Of course anything is possible and I can be wrong.
What is the oil level in P/S reservoir?

I looked in the workshop manual and there is no internal seals pictured there, only the O-ring.

[Graeme]

T5 128kw Oil Leak Power Steering Seal Reply to Thread

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for your helpful replies. I'm not too cluey about the subject so really do appreciate the comments. If I'm fore-armed with some useful facts I may manage some success with Chatswood Classic Cars and VW.

Currently the dealer is discussing things with VW.

The background and an answer to a query is that...

On a trip around Australia I noticed that the power steering oil reservoir was slightly overflowing. I think it was probably darker in colour than it should have been. I then assumed that the liquid might have just been bouncing out as some of the driving was on badly corrugated roads and the plastic container is a mounted in a way which could have it jiggle up and down. I did add about half a litre of engine oil but assumed that was normal consumption over quite some thousands of kilometres. Perhaps it was actually due to an oil escape into the steering system.

An inexplicable symptom was that when the car had been running for hundreds of kilometres and everything was hot the steering gave a kind of grating noise and maybe the suspension or steering a bit of a clunk - only evident at very low speeds. I probably wrongly assumed this was because something in the bowels of the car received an unfortunate dose of overflowing steering fluid.

The power steering seal problem was identified by the dealer when the car went in for service.

The most interesting idea put forward is that the only seal is perhaps an O ring. If so it should be an international standard size and surely could be simply replaced with no need for a new pump.

I'll report back as to progress.

(For T5 owners, another piece of gloomy information is that under a previous owner the van was serviced by Central Coast Motors of Gosford who managed to strip the threads on the threaded inserts holding the engine undertray in place. The inserts are not available from VW who offer new chassis members! One needs to drill out the existing inserts and use a specialist tool to put new ones in place. The tool costs around $500! VW dealers do not have them. The inserts need a quality tool as the cheapies won't manage inserts for the "large" 8mm metric bolts. I'm trying to get by with recut threads and/or a helicoil but the inserts are thinnish and may still need replacing.) Aaaagh!

Thanks again.

Graeme

[Transporter]

Hi Graeme,
if O-ring is the only problem it can be easily made using Loctite O-ring splicing kit.

Damaged engine tray threads can be easily fixed with the rivet nuts, tool for that including rivet nuts range from $80 to $200 from the good tool stores. (of course there are more expensive variants)

edit: just re read your post about replacing the threads. You're right many of the rivet nut pliers are made only for up to 6mm. I bought Fascor brand (FH20) rivet nut pliers and made M8 pin for M8 rivet nuts, works well.

[Silver Caravelle]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for your helpful replies. I'm not too cluey about the subject so really do appreciate the comments. If I'm fore-armed with some useful facts I may manage some success with Chatswood Classic Cars and VW.

Currently the dealer is discussing things with VW.

The background and an answer to a query is that...

On a trip around Australia I noticed that the power steering oil reservoir was slightly overflowing. I think it was probably darker in colour than it should have been. I then assumed that the liquid might have just been bouncing out as some of the driving was on badly corrugated roads and the plastic container is a mounted in a way which could have it jiggle up and down. I did add about half a litre of engine oil but assumed that was normal consumption over quite some thousands of kilometres. Perhaps it was actually due to an oil escape into the steering system.

An inexplicable symptom was that when the car had been running for hundreds of kilometres and everything was hot the steering gave a kind of grating noise and maybe the suspension or steering a bit of a clunk - only evident at very low speeds. I probably wrongly assumed this was because something in the bowels of the car received an unfortunate dose of overflowing steering fluid.

The power steering seal problem was identified by the dealer when the car went in for service.

The most interesting idea put forward is that the only seal is perhaps an O ring. If so it should be an international standard size and surely could be simply replaced with no need for a new pump.

I'll report back as to progress.

(For T5 owners, another piece of gloomy information is that under a previous owner the van was serviced by Central Coast Motors of Gosford who managed to strip the threads on the threaded inserts holding the engine undertray in place. The inserts are not available from VW who offer new chassis members! One needs to drill out the existing inserts and use a specialist tool to put new ones in place. The tool costs around $500! VW dealers do not have them. The inserts need a quality tool as the cheapies won't manage inserts for the "large" 8mm metric bolts. I'm trying to get by with recut threads and/or a helicoil but the inserts are thinnish and may still need replacing.) Aaaagh!

Thanks again.

Graeme

Graeme,

Thanks for feedback re engine undertray. I will remember not to over tighten the 6 bolts. Yes one would have hoped that a helicoil would do the job, but a little scary to think the inserts are thinnish.

In regards to the O-ring, would it worth trying REPCO or BURSON Auto Parts, or a hydraulic hose place to see if they have a compatible o-ring?

Regards,

Scott

[Graeme]

T5 Undertray - Threaded Inerts/Rivnuts

Thanks again for the help on the water pump and undertray challenges. I'll report back on progress if I learn something of use.

In the meantime, if anyone is rivetingly interested in threaded inserts, you can read about them on the Aerobolt website.

A convenient but expensive tool is in the Masterfix MFX612 S kit which manages 8mm and larger. Its handles work in a ratchet manner which means you don't need a very strong hand. Maybe the common "squeeze two handles with one hand" gadgets are not much good for a weakling like me on large size fastenings. I might have to visit the gym before tackling our Moderator's solution.

It appears you need a 13.5mm hole for an 8mm metric bolt. The fun would start if the VW hole, after drilling out the existing fastening, is much larger.

[Transporter]

I might have to visit the gym before tackling our Moderator's solution.

It appears you need a 13.5mm hole for an 8mm metric bolt. The fun would start if the VW hole, after drilling out the existing fastening, is much larger.

... Surprisingly for M8 insert you don't need that much more force compared to M6 inserts. When I have a bit more time I will make a bolt that will allow installing M8 inserts using only 2 spanners and post the pictures. In a mean time, if you would need M8 inserts Universal Fasteners have M8 insert that needs only 10.5mm holes, there are different designs of the insert it depends what you use them for.

[Graeme]

Outcome of Steering Pump Leak Problem

Thanks for the advice from members of the forum, especially our moderator for some extra help.

VW were persuaded by Phil at Chatswood Classic Cars to make a donation. He was knowledgeable, interested and helpful.

They paid 80% and I paid 20% of parts and labour. 100% amounted to $709. Down on the original estimate.

Plus VW insisted I pay 100% of the $75.46 for renewing the a/c gas although the proximate cause was the pump replacement.

The van was 6 months outside the warrranty period though it had not hit 100,000 kilometres.

Apparently the dealer has replaced "a few of these" under warranty.

I had wanted the failed pump to see if it really could be fixed with just a new seal but I could not have it as it had to go back to VW.

One wonders if VW get 100% of the cost back from the pump manufacturer!

VW took 2 1/2 days to make a decision during which time I was without the van.

(I mention in passing that the fuel filter cost $130!)

[gregozedobe]

That result is definitely better than a poke in the eye with a burnt stick.

Note to self - must buy VWA extended warranty before my van gets to 3 years old.

[Golf Loon]

On the Original Topic, the pump, this is a known fault, make sure all you T5ers get yours fixed under warranty.

The difficulty with the pump is that it is internal in the engine. The issue is supposedly fixed with the later T5s.

[jets]

This is over on the Brickyard Forum, may confirm things.

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/water-pump-powersteering-pump-inspection_topic43965.html

[Shifter]

"The issue is supposedly fixed with the later T5s."

Do you have any dates for this problem (P/s pump seals) to have been rectified. What was the fix??

[augie]

Got this same problem with my t5, it's really pushing the oil through. Do I need to replace the pump or can the seal be replaced to fix the problem?

[blackwood]

*Bump*
Have a 2005 AXE 2.5 TDI - only ever used the 506.01 Liquimolly Longtomw 0W-30 oil.
Am onto my Second Power Steering Pump in just over a year. Last one was genuine and lines flushed.Both failures were due to Oil contamination. Lines and tank "silted" up with black engine oil which no doubt changes the PAS oil viscosity and ruins the thing. Read a lot of posts stating that the problem happens but not why? the seal on an OEM part fails? and how can this be stopped in the future. Just had another genuine replacement and would like to know what is causing the oil to enter the system and if its preventable. Any thoughts or better parts the source next time?