2.5TDI rattle

[t4 camper]

Thanks Brian,
It's not off yet, I expect I will need to take it off as there is some damage to the cam bucket bores at the top where bits have hit down.
I will have to take the cam out to replace followers.
I am reading at present to work out how to lock the injection pump in place whilst taking the cam out.
If I can clean up the cam bores enough I my try it, hopefully the valves have not been jammed down and whacked by the piston top.

Neil

[t4 camper]

Found the cause of the problem and the extent of damage.
The cause is a failed timing belt tensioner, and the valve timing is out, late.
All five intakes have hit the pistons, 2 intakes have broken cam buckets as shown.
Bent valves, are also obvious, not sure about valve guides, the cam shaft is damaged from impact with the broken buckets, but not broken into pieces, which I have been told is the common result when belt breaks.
The cam belt and tensioners were replaced at 120K just on 12 months ago, now 147K.
Don't know if I have any recourse with the tensioner supplier or installer.

I can see an expensive week ahead.
Thanks for the help in the diagnosis.
Neil

[Jmac]

Geez mate not so good. Failed tensioner (new) not good at all, what make and where is it from????????
Jmac

[BrianJ]

That's really bad luck.

I thought all 2.5 TDI had chains and chain tensioners for cam drive, is yours a 5 cyl or 4 cyl

Brian

[jets]

The cam belt and tensioners were replaced at 120K just on 12 months ago, now 147K.

I wonder if the tensioner was actually changed. I read on a UK forum where a water pump had failed, leaking water all over the place. The owner had paid for the pump to be replaced at the last cam belt change some 3 months earlier. The garage quickly offered to replace it at no cost. It was obvious from the photo that he posted that the pump was old & discoloured & infact had not been replaced. Unfortunately not all garages are honest.

[jets]

That's really bad luck.

I thought all 2.5 TDI had chains and chain tensioners for cam drive, is yours a 5 cyl or 4 cyl

Brian

Only the V6 has chains. The 4 & 5 cyls in the T4s have toothed belts.

[Jmac]

I wonder if the tensioner was actually changed. I read on a UK forum where a water pump had failed, leaking water all over the place. The owner had paid for the pump to be replaced at the last cam belt change some 3 months earlier. The garage quickly offered to replace it at no cost. It was obvious from the photo that he posted that the pump was old & discoloured & infact had not been replaced. Unfortunately not all garages are honest.

I tend to agree with you Jets. Like i said whats the make and where is it from????? i would be checking for sure, many a time if ive been anywhere unsure of a new tensioner it goes straight back , no question, its something you dont mess with and that goes without saying. Its a lesson here for anyone trying to scrimp for sure. Not saying thats what happened . but at the same time a valuable lesson
Jmac

[Golf Loon]

Yeah I agree too Jimmy. I have seen it a lot in Australia too, f it goes to a Non VW Specialist they look at it and say why would you need to change that? The tensioner gets left unchanged and then prematurely fails.

[t4 camper]

Thanks for the help guys,
I suspect the culprit was the cam belt tensioner, an alloy piece that retains the internal spring has broken out and was found in the bottom of the belt cover. Another piece is gone.
The valve timing was out, all five pistons were pushing the inlet valves shut, some minor contact marks, the hydraulic cam buckets must have been taking a pounding and eventually two failed.
The belts were changed just on 12 months 25k ago by an 'expert vw service centre' on the Sunshine Coast.
I had obtained a quote over the phone for the work before booking in, the price was not cheap, but more competitive than the dealer, whom I did not have much faith in as other warranty repairs had all taken at least 2 or 3 attempts to fix.
Anyway the tensioner appears not to have been changed when the belt was done. Manufacture date of 02/03, vehicle build of 04/03.
Neither were the waterpump or injection pump tensioners.
My over the phone quote included the tensioners in my notes, with the disclaimer of some price variation depending upon the exact belt that was needed. Sounded fair and honest to me.
The invoice did not detail the tensioners and I was not aware that the waterpump was driven from the cam belt and was vital for the valve timing.
I hadn't ever looked that hard.
Needless to say I am fairly annoyed with the service centre as their 'expertise' has let me down and cost a heap.
A new head is being fitted along with new waterpump belts and tensioners.
Hopefully back for the weekend.
Neil

[Jmac]

Geez mate not good, pocket will be light after that fiasco. Good spot with the tensioner, that would be about right there, if there is one thing you dont mess with is that area, and senseless not doing a water pump, you are in there anyway!!!!!! Even if a new tensioner just doesnt look quite right it goes back even if your car stays off the road because of it, im sure its better being late because of that.
Result at last
Jmac

[vwguru]

lucky its only the valves, i seen the cam shaft broken in 3 bits due to a faulty water pump. when i replace timing belts i always replace the water pump and tensioner, may cost ya a bit more but then stuff like this hopefully wont happen. Is the repair being done at a vw dealership? as the fuel pump will need to be fine tuned........

[Jmac]

Mate doesnt have to be done in a dealership, Vagcom more than capable when setting the pump timing, and gets done running, dial gauging a thing of the past now.
Jmac

[vwguru]

cool just checking, any mechanic could get it running but may not be running very efficient..........